[seasterl]

I'm a headphone guy like a lot of guys (and girls) on this site and have never considered using an outboard DAC before.  My gear, which is getting to be a few years old now, consists of:

Creek CD53 CD player ("Crystal" DAC)
Marantz Reference Series DR17
Marantz Reference Series CD17Mk2
Sugden Headmaster headphone amp
i/c:  Kimber Select, Kimber Hero, Straightwire Maestro II
Powerline filter:  Chang Lightspeed 6400Mk2
Power cords:  Kimber PK14 on headphone amp only
Sennheiser HD-600 headphones with Clou cable upgrade
AKG 701 headphones

Due to a recent move and having to use the Creek CD53 in my main system, I'm using the Marantz source(s) for CD playback for headphone listening.  After recently acquiring a set of AKG 701 cans, they're making me re-evaluate my digital source and headphone amp.  Some of the guys on the two-channel circle are not big advocates of upgraded i/c, power cords, and especially DACs, but I think it's because they can't hear the differences in their main systems.  However, it is possible to hear the differences with headphones.  What do you guys recommend as my first upgrade?  Should I consider an outboard DAC to mate with one of these Marantz digital sources or should I look at a new headphone amp first?  The Sugden is no slouch and at one time it was pretty close to the top of the heap in choices, so I'm a little scared to throw done a few grand for a new Singlepower amp.  (BTW, I've tried other headphone amps like the ASL MG Head DT/OTL, Creek, and Grado RA-1 and settled on the Sugden at that time several years ago.)

[TONEPUB]

All you can really do is give it a try in your system and see if you can hear
the difference.  A good DAC will definitely give you the potential of more sound,
however it's like anything in the chain.  If you upgrade the DAC, then the transport
comes up short and it's another rabbit hole to chase down.

If you are happy with your phones and amp, the next logical step is to upgrade
the source.

It's the same with the cables, however, that's the last thing I'd spend big dough
on.  I've reviewed a lot of cable from reasonable to really expensive and have
found the cables to be a thin layer of icing on the top.  If you have a fantastic
system, they will give you a bit more, but otherwise I've seen people spend a thousand
bucks on a pair of interconnects, when they have a three hundred dollar phono cartridge!

It's all about synergy.  Again, give a few things a try and see what you hear
and like.

[denjo]

Jeff, I could not agree more! Instead of a transport, you might want to try wireless streaming (like the Squeezebox). With a good source, even a mediocre system will sound good. With an average source, even the best system will sound bad! A good DAC will elevate your system to a level you cannot imagine was possible.

Best Regards
Dennis

[Jon L]

I've used all kinds of source setups with my headphone rig, and currently I do use an outboard DAC, which is being fed lossless files from my audio PC. 

I have listened to that K701 with many headphone amps, including "balanced" headphone amps of many thousands of dollars, and it is my strong belief that the most desirable SQ is obtained from a powerful tube head amp. 

On the other hand, I've listened to HD600/650 on many amps also, and it is my belief they sound best out of a very powerful SS amp, preferably "balanced." 

Since you're looking to upgrade the source, I think a good way to optimize both might be a good DAC with a good tube output stage.

[seasterl]

Thanks for the comments, guys.  Boy!  I started this thead a long time ago, but it's nice to still get the feedback.

Since the original post I have not changed anything about the system.  I did purchase some ASL amps:  HB1 hybrid SET/SS, MG Head OTL Mk2, MG Head OTL Mk3.  I also used to own the MG Head DT/OTL Mk1 amp (along with Creek OBH11SE and Grado RA1).  Well, I didn't keep the recently purchased MG Head OTL amp because I kept hearing a local FM radio station playing when I was between song.  I tried aftermarket tubes, too, but the sound was just mediocre.  I retained the HB1 amp, though, but only because it was very quiet and, well, it is a SET amp afterall and has a warmth to it.  My Sugden Headmaster remains my best amp.  Even Stereophile rated my amp in their Class A bracket even though I often think they have a different agenda.  When I sold my two MG Head amps I bought a second Sugden Headmaster for a second system to watch movies.  I think it's a great match for the AKG K701 but the HD600 could use a slightly brighter amp (if I want to match the two sounds; otherwise, they're complimentary).

I'm not sure if you guys are familiar with the Marantz Reference Series components, but they are over-built with the finest parts available, so I'd imagine they'd make great transports.  I'll have to start giving strong consideration to an outboard DAC as my next step.  I thought about the new Grace m902, but another audiophile said that it's not that great sounding.  Too bad!  I wonder if the Bryston SP2 has a nice-sounding DAC.

[tanchiro58]

All you can really do is give it a try in your system and see if you can hear
the difference.  A good DAC will definitely give you the potential of more sound,
however it's like anything in the chain.  If you upgrade the DAC, then the transport
comes up short and it's another rabbit hole to chase down.

If you are happy with your phones and amp, the next logical step is to upgrade
the source.

It's the same with the cables, however, that's the last thing I'd spend big dough
on.  I've reviewed a lot of cable from reasonable to really expensive and have
found the cables to be a thin layer of icing on the top.  If you have a fantastic
system, they will give you a bit more, but otherwise I've seen people spend a thousand
bucks on a pair of interconnects, when they have a three hundred dollar phono cartridge!

It's all about synergy.  Again, give a few things a try and see what you hear
and like.

I fully agree with Tonepub. My first two channel system was very good (at that time) but compare to my existing system I think there is no comparison. For more than five years, I have kept changing components because I have never satisfy but one day I have tried those DIY stuffs and find out a way to solve my problems (since this expensive hobby is the only way to relieve daily stress!). In my opinion, you just try to upgrade your sources like CDP and/or DAC then you consider your amp and/or speakers. Remember here in this forum you will learn a lot from other experienced members to find your need, which you will be satisfied with your taste and your pocket.

Regards,
Tan