[satfrat]

Robin,

You get your Butler amps yet?  We need to finish our discussion/evaluation of this amp here, as I understand this area is about to become a 2-ch only area

                          Hopefully, the moderators to be (no comment) will grandfather all threads and only concern themselves with the new ones under their narrow-minded control. My Butler`s were sent out friday for the cross-country trip. My VenHaus flavor 4 power cords were sent out today. I haven`t heard from Robert Schult of Ridge Street Audio about my IC`s being sent out but he`s been under the weather lately so I`m not hassling him. All my tweaks are ready and waiting. Thanks Gordy on your imput, much appreciated as the Herbie Hal-o`s are the only tweak I haven`t tried and I`m not going to experiment with them. They`ll be installed at the same time as my IEC upgrade. Hey John, has Kishore been over to hear your Butler`s yet? He better post some insights (or is it inears? ) on his visit. Rest assured that once I`m up and running, I`ll be a posting. After listening to my Yamaha for 2 1/2 years, recently w/ Stillpoints ERS inside the casing, I KNOW bright and am an expert in listening fatigue. I`ll know real quick if Maddog was blowing smoke in his remarks about the Butler. Better shut up as he`s leading the race for moderator. Like Pez would be any better,, :x  Regards, Robin

[Mad DOg]

...i'll know real quick if Maddog was blowing smoke in his remarks about the Butler...

satfrat,

as long as YOU're happy with the amp when you have it in YOUR system in YOUR room, that's what's important. i shared what i heard in my system in my room. as i always say, YMMV.

i was wincing due to the brightness coming thru my Rocket speakers which are well known for their warmth...also, i've had the Rockets at and beyond reference levels on LOTR with my ss amp and haven't felt the need to cover my ears so i am familiar w/ high spl levels and the fatigue associated w/ it. also, i wasn't the only person present who commented on the brightness...sa-dono and 2 av123 members were also present...they all had the same impression. guess it would have to be a conspiracy for this to be a coincidence. also keep in mind that sa-dono and the 2 av123 members were/are owners of the Diva by Swans speakers that are VERY, VERY warm and I myself prefer a smoother, warmer speaker. it's entirely possible that our definition and tolerance of "brightness" may be different from yours.

in the end, what matters is how it sounds to you since you're paying for it. happy listening...

[Sa-dono]

WHOOPS! Looks like I gots the AV123 gang on me tail now. No worries. I won`ts be acomin round these parts after you and y`re boys take over. Ya`all earned quite the "rep" for stickin` together over at AVS. Now it`s AC`s turn. I think I`ll shut up now before I dig any deeper of a hole for myself. Regards, Robin

No one is on your tail. I hope you continue hanging out here..as it will still be the same ole Audio Circle..except focused on 2-channel (regardless of who gets elected).

I could go more into detail about everything else..but I will save you from the boredom...except you have nothing to worry about. And as long as this thread stays focused on 2-channel and music reproduction, vs. HT or multi-channel, then it should be staying here.

Let us know what you think of the amp once you've got in some listening time. I'm sure others are interested as well.

[theborg]

Err... this thread is now in the Home Theater Circle... 5-channel amp and all that...

[satfrat]

Err... this thread is now in the Home Theater Circle... 5-channel amp and all that...

                    Thanks Borg, Ya got me outta Dodge before the AV123 gang could lynch me. Somehow, I feel safe and can breath easier here at the Home Theater Circle. I owe`s ya me life! Sa-Dano, looks like I didn`t delete my thoughts in time heh? say-va-vie Regards, Robin ›››Oh yah, btw, MULTICHANNEL IS MUSIC REPRODUCTION, the way it`s suppose to be, not the way it was in the Flintstone Age. After all, this IS AudioCIRCLE,,,,, not audiowall!!! Just a few more FACTS,,, Regards, Robin

[theborg]

I don't understand what the problem is. We had a seven-day call for volunteers for Facilitators, then we had a three-day election. NOW after it's all over you start complaining - ?

[satfrat]

I don't understand what the problem is. We had a seven-day call for volunteers for Facilitators, then we had a three-day election. NOW after it's all over you start complaining - ?

                          Ahh, Mr Borg, I don`t understand. Who`s complaining? I LOVE the changes that have been made here, thing are much more broken up and topics are spread apart the way they should be. I think you`d done a marvelous job with the reconstruction. SALUTES! BTW, I did vote although I have no interest in stereo other than a Boombox and I voted NEITHER. So you see, I have no complaints whatsoever here, more so regrets for opening my mouth with some thought that I should have kept to myself. I`m sure MadDog, Sa-Dano, & especially Maxcast/Carlman will do a mavelous job of moderating their forum. My condolences to Fergi to whom I personally feel was the BEST for the job.  Regards, Robin

[theborg]

Heh, ok well as long as people are happy then I'm happy

[satfrat]

Heh, ok well as long as people are happy then I'm happy

                  Then be happy! I just hope I am when those Butler amps get here cuz if MadDog`s right and I have gone out and spent thousands of dollars for more BRIGHT, I`m gonna be VERY unhappy. Either way, I`ll be posting my opinions here. Havee a great day Mr Borg.    Regards, Robin

[John B]

You know, I don't mean to complain, and I'm not really unhappy but why was this multi-channel amp thread stuck in the Home Theater - video section?  Just because one has a 5-ch amp does not necessarily mean it's about Home Theater.   If I were not interested in movies, but was interested in SACD or DVD-A I would be looking for a high quality 5-ch amp, which the Butler is.   I know, I'm splitting hairs here...but I just had to say my peace

I fully believe that Maddog and the crew who heard the Butler were indeed assaulted by an overly bright presentation.   This amp is very revealing and exquistely detailed, it will bring out everything, and I do mean everything in the recording your playing, and any bright characteristics of the associated equipment in the chain.  This is not a fault, it simply is revealing the truth.  In rediscovering my CD collection I have come across CDs whose presentation with the Butler was warm and lush sounding, and I've had CD's that cut so sharp a sound with the Butler as to be hard to listen to.   That is one of the tradeoffs you have to expect as you get more revealing equipment, what was ok on your previous gear may reveal itself to be less than pleasant on the high end stuff.

I would more than welcome Kishore or any locals who'd like to come over and check outmy system; consider this an open invitation.

[satfrat]

You know, I don't mean to complain, and I'm not really unhappy but why was this multi-channel amp thread stuck in the Home Theater - video section?  Just because one has a 5-ch amp does not necessarily mean it's about Home Theater.   If I were not interested in movies, but was interested in SACD or DVD-A I would be looking for a high quality 5-ch amp, which the Butler is.   I know, I'm splitting hairs here...but I just had to say my peace

I fully believe that Maddog and the crew who heard the Butle ...

                        I understand where your coming from John, although I consider myself a home theater man, I was more than happy with my mid-fi Yamaha receiver for that format. My only reason for everything I`ve done since first getting my BPT has been for the music. And now I`m stepping up to the plate with my biggest purchase of all, the Sunfire TG3 and the 2 Butler 3150 amps, all for the love of music reproduction in a concert format. And todays recordings are getting better & better. I just got the latest DVD of Allison Krauss and the Union Station and the ambience of the music is surreal. It`s something that ain`t gonna happen with 2 speakers. I can`t wait to hear it again with my new equipment. But John, you HAVE put a scare into me, I hope my c-band Motorola receiver is worthy enough for this high end Butler amp as this is my source for everything other than a few DVD`s and I can`t handle more bright like I`m getting now. I`m very nervous indeed. It won`t be long now,,,, Regards, Robin

[Mad DOg]

...I fully believe that Maddog and the crew who heard the Butler were indeed assaulted by an overly bright presentation. This amp is very revealing and exquisitely detailed...

John B,

You know in retrospect, I believe you might be right...We auditioned the Butler using Gladiator and When We Were Soldiers DVDs. I generally feel that movie soundtracks are often too bright so the Butler would have accentuated this.

I wish Luis would have mentioned the brightness if he felt that it wasn't truly indicative of the amp's full potential. To be fair, Luis did offer to leave the amp w/ me for a week to audition which I turned down because I wasn't WOW'd by the audition. In hindsight, I should've taken him up on his offer and put it into my 2 channel system to see what kind of results I could've gotten with the Butler out of my 2 ch gear.

[theborg]

why was this multi-channel amp thread stuck in the Home Theater - video section?  Just because one has a 5-ch amp does not necessarily mean it's about Home Theater

Er... because I f!#@ed up?

OK, *now* it's in the multichannel circle. Rob will be pleased no doubt, and now I'll stop messing about with the site for a while Good call, and let's hear lots more about multi-channel audio!

[Psychicanimal]

Are we going back to quadraphonic?

[John B]

But John, you HAVE put a scare into me, I hope my c-band Motorola receiver is worthy enough for this high end Butler amp as this is my source for everything other than a few DVD`s and I can`t handle more bright like I`m getting now. I`m very nervous indeed. It won`t be long now,,,, Regards, Robin

Robin,

I wouldn't worry about it, my guess is you'll be on cloud 9 when you hook everything up.  You simply cannot accurately predict how a particular component is going to mate with other gear till you hook it up and live with it for a few weeks.  You've got plenty of time to audition, and if it don't work out, you've got the return policy  I have a feeling though, you'll be keeping them.

[satfrat]

Robin,

I wouldn't worry about it, my guess is you'll be on cloud 9 when you hook everything up.  You simply cannot accurately predict how a particular component is going to mate with other gear till you hook it up and live with it for a few weeks.  You've got plenty of time to audition, and if it don't work out, you've got the return policy  I have a feeling though, you'll be keeping them.

           Hell John, I KNOW ain`t nuthin` going back. My biggest scare is my impulsiveness that a Psychic has pointed out to me. In the hole 8 grand now, I badly want to try out Klaus`s Nightingale speakers as my Bose are 10-18 years old and won`t highlight shit. Those Nightingales will tho, highlight any system brightness issues (if there are any) and my credit canyon (ANY)!  Ain`t this fun John? Regards, Robin

[John B]

I badly want to try out Klaus`s Nightingale speakers as my Bose are 10-18 years old and won`t highlight shit

Robin,

My friend, you are in dire need of a speaker upgrade   Had you mentioned that you had 80's vintage speakers I would have advised upgrading speakers before getting the amps.  But what's done is done, now you need join me in deep debt hell and get some decent woofers and tweeters!

[Marbles]

The Odyssey Lorelies are VERY VERY good speakers, if you could swing them, it would be money well spent IMO.

[John B]

wish Luis would have mentioned the brightness if he felt that it wasn't truly indicative of the amp's full potential

Maddog,

I think we need to examine in more detail this concept of brightness.

To me brightness in an audio presentation relates to highs that are "harsh", and a tonal balance that is usually biased towards overshadowing the mid to lower frequencies.    The Butler does not do this, at least in my system.   What the Butler does do is lift the veil, which reveals the source in all it's glory or all it's painfullness.  I have only had the down side of this veil lifting on 4 CDs, and I knew they were less than optimum recordings from previous experience on my former setups.   The Butler has what I would call a transparent presentation.  It gets out of the way, not adding anything that would "pleasantize" the material.   This can be mind expanding on well recorded material.   I was listening to a Pinetop Perkins CD last night, "Back on Top", and was simply blown away by how real the piano and horns were sounding.   It had nothing to do with bright or warm or even neutral, it just sounded live and right.

Interestingly enough, the area where I have found no issues with a bright tonal balance is DVDs, and I've gone through a good chunk of my Concert DVD collection.   I think this has alot to do my Denon 3800 DVD player, which leans towards a warm presentation.   The Denon/Butler combo is perfect match.  One of the DVDs I'm going to use as demo material at an HT Meet I'm hosting this month is called Drummers Collective "25th anniversary drum & bass concert"   There is a drum solo on this DVD in DD5.1 that is very close to the finest and most accurate sounding instrument recording I've ever experienced on any music format.  Gives me chills just thinking about the last time I heard it

So, in my opinion, alot of the "lableing" of gear as bright or warm is mis-assigned.   I don't believe any one component, outside of Bose speakers,   is responsible for the overall presentation you are hearing in a "system".

[satfrat]

We gotta another delay. Factory probs again. Butler will be sending the amps out today (they said this last friday) 3 day express. Even then, it`ll be next week before delivery. Oh well, shit happens. Luis did tell me that he tried out some Herbie`s tube dampers on a tube amp and was pleasently suprised with the detail improvements. He had never even heard of them. He says that the Butler tubes have very little microphonics but agrees that there should be some sutle detail improvements but not to the degree that he experienced. I`ll tell ya John, my speakers aren`t that bad which just makes me want to dive into the quarry of debt THAT much more. 4 Lorelei`s=$5000, you outta your ffffing mind or what? And here I thought MadDog was the rabid one!  Thanks for the idea tho, with all the good speakers out there, for you to speak up the Lorelei`s must mean something.  Klaus have you on the payroll? j/k  Regards, Robin