[JLM]

Russell,

Earlier you stated that you "still don't trust most transmission lines", but expected the bass from the Fried's to be great.  Just wondered why. 

[Double Ugly]

Russell,

Earlier you stated that you "still don't trust most transmission lines", but expected the bass from the Fried's to be great.  Just wondered why. 

I think because of the statement he made earlier in the same post -

"In 1976 I built a set of Fried Model H speakers, with the LS3/5A - like satellites and the huge coffee table T/L sub with something like a KEF B200 in each end. This was definitely the best sounding transmission line bass I have heard before or since."

The Fried Model H consisted of 3 speakers - 2 satellites and 1 stereo transmission line subwoofer - so Russell has first-hand experience with their TLs.

[JLM]

That's just it.  If he had a great experience with a transmission line, why not trust most now?

[Double Ugly]

I thought you were asking why he thought the Fried's TL bass would be great.

As for the question you intended to convey - given his vocation, and considering his years of experience with and exposure to speakers, I inferred he's heard a number of TL speakers that didn't meet with his approval. 

But as was the case when I read your question, I've been wrong before, and quite likely will be again.

[Russell Dawkins]

At this point I am of the opinion that transmission line speakers, like any ported speaker, are often not tuned quite right. With transmission lines, in my experience, the results of improper tuning tend to be even more of a "one-note" bass than a sightly mis-tuned conventional bass reflex cabinet.

Also, in the case of conventional ported boxes the port tends to be somewhere near the driver associated, where with TLs the vent is either very close or, more often, far from the driver. I think when it is far, then room integration becomes in some cases almost impossibly complex as a result.

In the case of the Fried Model Hs the box was 4 ft long with a single bend. This made the line about 8' long with the open end adjacent to the driver. It worked so well I copied it in what was to be the last set of speakers I made (and which I still have).
These used a KEF B110 and a T27 (ouch) in a slim TL with the vent at the top back. It was intended to be wide bandwidth but low power handling - aimed at apartment dwellers who couldn't and didn't want to play loud. Also it was designed for positioning on either side of an armchair to function as near fields, or headphones for those times when no one else in the house particularly wanted to hear what you were playing. I never measured them, but there was surprising low bass extension. In fact they really shocked a few people who didn't expect 35 Hz from 4".

You have to realize, this was 1978!

[JLM]

The real problem I saw with transmission lines in the past was that the design could only be done by trial and error.  But now we have Martin King and others to thank for providing a way to mathematically model transmission lines.  So hopefully those days of poor transmission line designs are in the past.

The Fried Model H is very special to me.  In 1976 I was in search of my first "serious" audio system and stumbled onto a place selling Fried's.  It was a watershed moment as I thought I wanted something like JBL L-300's (3-way, ported, horn mid/treble drivers, looked like a huge undercounter refrigerator).  The salesman suggested trying something different.  He switched to the H's and asked if I knew where the sound was coming from.  That day I discovered stereo imaging as I couldn't tell where the sound was coming from until I walked up to the satellites.  I was in disbelief that so much bass could be coming from those little speakers.  Then he showed me the coffee table shaped stereo woofer cabinet.  I left there staggered and confused.  It sounded so right, but not the kind of sound I thought I wanted from an audio system.  It forced me to re-think what audio reproduction should be (musically accurate reproduction versus a really good version of artificial hi-fi hyped sound).

Several return trips to that shop, study of Fried's white papers, and months of contemplation lead me to becoming a Fried customer (still have a pair).  I even visited Bud in his Philadelphia office and attended a couple of his "road shows" he held from time to time at dealers.  And I'm still a firm believer that transmission lines provide the best practical solution for great bass (deep, fast, musical).

[mizzuno]

I will be picking up these speakers on Saturday, from the remarks so far I have picked a decent speaker, (as far as my original criteria were concerned). i think it will lend itself very well to the type of room they will be placed in. I am trying not to pay an arm and a leg for an amplifier though, i would like to keep the amp under $2k for a nice 2 channel with ~300 watts. Still searching...


Michael

[Bob Reynolds]

I will be picking up these speakers on Saturday, from the remarks so far I have picked a decent speaker, (as far as my original criteria were concerned). i think it will lend itself very well to the type of room they will be placed in. I am trying not to pay an arm and a leg for an amplifier though, i would like to keep the amp under $2k for a nice 2 channel with ~300 watts. Still searching...

Michael

Michael, you might consider the ATI AT2002 http://www.ati-amp.com/at2000.html or AT3002 http://www.ati-amp.com/at3000.html. I think you can order them online from Sound City, an authorized dealer.

[JLM]

Mizz,

Keep in mind that the speaker impedance is rated at 4 ohms and most folks specify amps under 8 ohm loads, so you can cut most of the amp ratings you'll find in half (5 - 150 wpc at 8 ohms).  Actually 5 - 150 wpc is a pretty wide range (7 - 21 dB of gain).  I'd always aim high as large doses of clean power is better than smaller distorted signals, especially for the size of room you've mentioned. 

[WEEZ]

300 watts is probably overkill.

AVA offers amps that will play into 1-2 ohm loads (EXH Omega's). The big one (the 440EXH) is 220wpc. More than enough power. $1699+ shipping.

The Fried's are 90db 4-ohm speakers. That's roughly equal to an 87db 8-ohm speaker. I can't imagine needing 300 watts. Even for a huge room. (unless, of course, your dad listens at punishingly loud levels) 

Or maybe consider the Oydessy Extreeme's.

What pre-amp is he using?

WEEZ

[JLM]

The new Red Dragon and Ric Shultz digital amps ($600 - 800 for stereo) are just the latest (and some of the least expensive) 100 wpc digital amps available.  Channel Islands Audio offers well received 100 watt digital monoblocks for $800 a piece.  For around $2400/pair you can jump up to bigger Channel Island Audio or NuForce monoblocks.  Shultz sells bigger ones for less.

Search A/C for all these (and Weez's) suggestions.