SLA1 in the house-WOW!!!!

eric the red · « **on:** 3 Jun 2003, 04:40 pm »

All I can say is you have to hear it to believe it, even right out of the box. WOW. If you try this experiment at home, you'll need two Radio Shack adapters part # 274-320. Presto, instant integrated amp for @ 225.00.

Hantra · « **Reply #1 on:** 3 Jun 2003, 06:05 pm »

Here's what I can't understand.

Why do people take pieces of gear that are $200, and throw $1000 worth of mods to them? ? ? ?

It would seem much simpler just to start with the right piece of gear, or build from the ground up. Look at the AKSA, or the amps I am getting from Scott Nixon. You can only improve something so much. Especially if it's fundamentally flawed to begin with.

I'll stop here before I get more people angry with me. . hahaha. .

Marbles · « **Reply #2 on:** 3 Jun 2003, 06:15 pm »

Good question.

Here's one answer...

Since most manufacturers make a product to a certain price point, and they know that each $ they put into a product is marked up to around $5, they will often build a nice circuit with cheap parts.

Modders come buy for those that want the best and with upgrading parts to this nice circuit can build a very nice piece.

The other way to do it, is to buy from direct to customer manufacturers like on this site. Their markup is much smaller........

Hantra · « **Reply #3 on:** 3 Jun 2003, 06:39 pm »

I see what you are saying man. . .

The problem occurs when a person spends $1000 to mod something, and the modder uses all these nice parts to fix parts of the circuit that aren't really necessary, or beneficial to the sound. . .

Carlman · « **Reply #4 on:** 3 Jun 2003, 07:30 pm »

I think the general practice of improving circuitry is great if the person that starts the process can recognize a good circuit design and build on it. Otherwise, how would you know which caps and resistors had what effect on the sound.

If Eric has the electronics background to identify a cheap piece of electronics and knows that he can modify it to achieve his goals, more power to 'em.

I have found the trial and error approach to electronics is fairly boring and non-scientific... so, I admire people who can 'hear' a circuit design.

I don't know what Eric's idea of 'good' sound is. Telling me 'wow' and that I have to hear it doesn't tell me anything. Plus, I don't have the money or time to experiment with something completely unknown. (especially with crap from rat shack) Does it sound better than a Threshold, Ava, or an old Sony receiver? What are its characteristics and what other gear are you using?

Marbles · « **Reply #5 on:** 3 Jun 2003, 07:40 pm »

I'm not sure how I missed ETR's post above!!

OK, stop yanking our sausage and start giving us details!!!

I'm curious how it compares to your other amps?

How is the fan noise? Any other info you can share???

Hantra · « **Reply #6 on:** 3 Jun 2003, 07:43 pm »

Since this thread has been altered, don't take my statements out of context. I was speaking of this $1000 mod that this Nance guy does to the $200 amp. I am not questioning whether one can better a $200 product with a few mods, but we are talking $1000 which puts you WAY out of the modded piece of gear category, and way into the reaches of other products that will likely beat the modded one. . .

I have no problem spending $300 to mod my transport or anything, but would I spend $1500? Ridiculous. . . Especially since we rarely know what these guys' qualifications are anyway.

B

rosconey · « **Reply #7 on:** 3 Jun 2003, 08:21 pm »

hey what ever floats his boat, if you want to mod a 200$ amp and add 500 $ more cost, thats not that powerful and not guaranteed, when you could call klause and get his new little one for the same cash and 20 yr guarantee, start the outboard and go fishing ITS YOUR MONEY NOT MINE OR ANYONE ELSES

hope you enjoy your new amp

eric the red · « **Reply #8 on:** 3 Jun 2003, 08:23 pm »

Yes I altered this thread as Don is already getting crucified on another thread here. The fan is dead quiet and the amp sounds really good. A little hot on the top end but me P3's are that way already and it didn't sound hot with a pair of JM Reynaud Twin MK 3's I plugged into it. The rest of the sound is very smooth and it's got excellent bass control. I've been listening to a tube integrated for the last year so that has been my sonic reference point. It's built like a brick too. This is a 200.00 pro amp which makes me wonder what other audio bargains are out there. You can buy these things all over the net with liberal return policies for @ 200.00 plus shipping. Rosconey, what the hell are you talking about? This is a post on the stock SLA1.

Occam · « **Reply #9 on:** 3 Jun 2003, 09:05 pm »

Eric,

Would you be so kind as to post a picture of the inside of the amp?
If you don't have a digital camera, could you describe the innards, the transformer's diameter, the number, orientation, size and models of the power supply caps, the id of the ICs, output transistors...the relay?

Thanks in advance,

Paul

eric the red · « **Reply #10 on:** 3 Jun 2003, 09:22 pm »

I don't have a camera and even if I did open it up, wouldn't know what I was looking at nor what I was talking about (nothing new there

). The more I listen to this thing the more impressed I get.

rosconey · « **Reply #11 on:** 3 Jun 2003, 11:47 pm »

etr,
um didnt the other guys say somthing about a moded amp in the posts before me.thats what i was getting at, also didnt i say i hope you enjoy it.
its stock -ok,
i was following the posts above me .
.
- i was on your side

just a little sarcastic

nature boy · « **Reply #12 on:** 3 Jun 2003, 11:57 pm »

Eric,

Thanks for your impressions of the stock ART SLA-1. While I think all of the posters have raised good valid points, time will tell as Don's initial modified units are delivered and people start posting their impressions. I have found it best not to judge, products or people, until you see them in action.

I have ordered a modified unit for a friend who was looking for an integrated amp. I plan to fully burn in the amp in my system and do an A-B comparison with my Odyssey stratos. Don't really have any unrealistic expectations, but I have faith in Don. But heh, I'm the trusting type.

It's an intriguing proposition, that just got my curiousity up and figured I would give it a try. Hopefully my intuition is right on this decision.

NB

eric the red · « **Reply #13 on:** 4 Jun 2003, 12:16 am »

I'm guessing Don is a little better modder than he is internet salesman

peakrchau · « **Reply #14 on:** 4 Jun 2003, 12:21 am »

Quote from: Marbles

I'm not sure how I missed ETR's post above!!

OK, stop yanking our sausage and start giving us details!!!

I'm curious how it compares to your other amps?

How is the fan noise? Any other info you can share???

I've been thinking about the amp end of things for a while. I think the Art designers are literally turning out some pretty decent stuff (DI/O for one). Hinting stronly to my wife, I recieved a belated BD gift in the form of a SLA-1 over the weekend. I was tuned into the Audiogon thread prior to it being deleted and am aware of some of the underhandeness going on but will not discuss this in the post.

I presently run a highly modified NAD 3020 that is the equal of more costly amps in terms of the first Watt (probably more). It has served very well in the role of a microscope to sort out deficiencies in upstream cables and sources. Out of the SLA-1 box, last night, I still find the 3020 to win in terms of information retrieval and overall balance. The SLA-1 sounds surprisingly close, though. From turn-on, the 3020 normally takes about an hour or two to warm up to its sonic splendor.

Within 1/2 hour, I opened up the top, disabled the fan and gave it more of a listen. Updating the power cord to an Belden 8302 based unit gave a bit more resolution. The next morning it sounded somewhat better after having been left on all night. I'm not sure if it sounds better with or without the ground "lifted". It sounds promising. I do not know if it beats 95% of the amps out of the box (as claimed by Don) but it sure has potential at this early stage. Perhaps my little 3020 beats 96% of the amps

The amp is stable driving 2/3 Chris Venhaus CAT5 loudspeaker design. I tested this first on my "cheaper" Radio Shack LX5 speakers before moving onto my Axiom M22ti.

The power supply and most of the weight is due to a centrally mounted toroidal power supply with a center tapped output and a secondary output consisting of two green wires. Not sure what these are used for. The full wave rectifier bridge is heatsinked to the left channel...updating this to fast recover types may be more difficult unless one uses higher rated parts and no heat sinking.

The input section from the balanced/unbalance inputs has one chip marked 6554. This is mounted on the right channel amp board. Each channels has another IC by JDS (I think).

The power supply uses 4700 uF 63V (Metacon) units for the positive and negative supply (mounted on left channel output board)

The rest of the electrolytics are made by Tocon (whom I have heard of).
There are some green film units (about three) used in various parts of the amplifier.

Bottom Line:
Sounds decent enough and seems to be getting better as I leave it plugged in. Weakest point may be the snap on connections between the power tranformer outputs and the full range rectifier and between the Attenuator controls and the main amplifying stage (read mod potential).

I'll be creating a page for the http://www.angelfire.com/ca/rchau/audio/sla-1.html">SLA-1 Mod Page in a few days

Associated Equipment:

Apex 600D as transport (modified)
Art DI/O (modified)
JR 1695a digital cable
Cardas 21.5 gauge twinax interconnect
2/3 Venhaus CAT5 speaker cables
Line filter for transport and DI/O

Cheers,

PeAK

KeithR · « **Reply #15 on:** 4 Jun 2003, 01:05 am »

Quote from: Marbles

Good question.

Modders come buy for those that want the best and with upgrading parts to this nice circuit can build a very nice piece.

The other way to do it, is to buy from direct to customer manufacturers like on this site. Their markup is much smaller........

Mods cost a lot, tend to decrease resale value, and void the warranty for most stuff--hence why I can't see people modding stuff (like the Sony ES players that are known for transport issues btw). There are a few exceptions like GNS that mods Wadia and the like and offers a 2-year warranty...

Your second point is also misleading too---buying direct can have advantages, but no one says that direct products sound better, that you can't get extremely good deals on non-direct products that make price comparable (everybody compares MSRP which is inane--that, and the direct marketer saying "if we sold this in a store it would be 6k" bs that goes around here), and that resale on direct products leaves a MUCH, MUCH smaller universe of potential resale and does not guarantee any better resale value (in fact, i would argue the opposite). Look at nOrh 9.0s for example...

This all comes from someone who has bought many products direct btw. Lately, people can't/don't even compare direct products to more well-known manufactured counterparts, making the reviews on this site even more dubious. Yes, direct manufactured audio gear can be good, but i would say it is the exception, rather than the norm.

Oh well, stepping of soapbox...

Marbles · « **Reply #16 on:** 4 Jun 2003, 03:32 am »

I guess ETR liked the SLA 1

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?ampstube&1055555346&2&3&4&

JackStraw · « **Reply #17 on:** 4 Jun 2003, 04:10 am »

Quote from: eric the red

I don't have a camera and even if I did open it up, wouldn't know what I was looking at nor what I was talking about (nothing new there ). The more I listen to this thing the more impressed I get.

Well, this is encouraging. I'm glad that you've found an amp that you're happy with despite Don's apparent shenanigans. Truth is that his mods might be the real deal after all... time will tell with some real reviews.

JohnR · « **Reply #18 on:** 4 Jun 2003, 04:36 am »

Cool, I wonder if you get them at a decent price down under. ETR or Peak, what's the "made in" label say?

eric the red · « **Reply #19 on:** 4 Jun 2003, 05:04 am »

I can't find anything on the unit nor box John. This isn't the amp to end all amps I'm sure, but for 200.00 it's impressive as hell to my ears. It's starting to make me think that I've been paying way too much for audio gear and I've been through a lot of gear in the past 3 years. For the first time in 5 months I'm hearing what a great speaker my P3's really are and that's all I care about in the end. This thing's going to Don Nance for his full mods including new attenuators in the morning.