Is it possible to actually be satisfied w/ one's system?

drphoto · « **on:** 2 Jun 2003, 07:48 pm »

Since I got the Tempest pre and moved my Maggies around in my room...I actually like this setup. I know I've talked about building the Alpha's, but now I'm wondering if I really need to spend the money and time required.

Sure there's things my rig could do better. I've always wanted to hear the snare have more impact and to have better resolution of detail overall But in general....there's not much to complain about.

And....I know this sounds weird, but I've grown fond of these speakers. They're almost like old friends. I got them in the early 80's, had them rebuilt at the factory, upgraded the x0vers, built them external braces, moved them around.... And they just keep delivering the goods. I think we Maggie guys are almost as crazy a Harley owners. We may know that there's something better out there, but we just hang on.

So the bottom line is this....yes I've heard better 'audiophile systems', but what I have is better than 98% of what most people ever get to hear. And maybe that's 'ok'. (don't mean to sound like 'Stuart Smalley from SNL!)

So who knows? If business stays good, then maybe I'll make a serious upgrade, but for now I'm thinking I need more software (music) and maybe a turntable.

So what about you guys? Yeah....I know buying new gear is fun....but how many of you feel like you've finally gotten it 'good enough'?

System: Stan Warren modded Aiwa changer/MSB Dac>HGA SS>Odyssey Tempest>HGA SS>Stratos Monos>Kimber 8TC/4TC>modded Maggie 2c (Mirage sub...Maggies run full range...sub fed by Tempest @ 40hz)

rosconey · « **Reply #1 on:** 2 Jun 2003, 07:56 pm »

are your mono's emtreme

Hantra · « **Reply #2 on:** 2 Jun 2003, 08:03 pm »

I think you answered your own question man. . .

When you hear systems that will bankrupt some county governments, and they are about 10% better than what you have, you can be satisfied.

If you are questioning whether you want to spend the money, then you are very close to satisfied. Just go for a cable upgrade to some Audience AU24, and you'll be good to go.

You can tell when you're close, and I think that's where you are now. There will always be a way to get better sound, but for the love of ___ , if you can actually find synergy in a system, and it gives you the emotion of the music, and you're not thinking about the system every time you listen to it, then STOP. . .

Take 6 months, and then re-evaluate. Just like your retirement portfolio.

Carlman · « **Reply #3 on:** 2 Jun 2003, 08:11 pm »

You know... it's funny you mention this issue... It comes up now and again but, recently, I've been thinking about it a lot. My wife is really tired of my 'hobby' and would like to know when I'll be 'done'. I soon realized I've been on this journey almost my entire life. When indeed, will it be good enough?
Here's where I got my answers:
What is my goal?
Is it 'the hunt'? Trying to find a better way to search for hifi ... getting better deals for gear.....
Or is it a better listening experience because I like certain music?
When will I know I've reached my goals?

My goal is musical reproduction with a little bit of 'deal getting' added in.

However, I have found:
Once you get a system to where you're really happy with it (in my case SQ and the deal I got), that should be it. Right? Wrong. 2-6 months roll by and all of a sudden you learn about these new 'Widgets' that tweak your system or the X12 Amp... and the way they're described creates awareness of issues you think you may have. "I didn't know I had a grainy midrange... maybe this new FET will be a better amp".... So, even if you don't have a problem with your system, you will find out that you could. Plus, I can get this great deal on the FET.

I'm an anal perfectionist but, not overly compulsive about it. I know that one day, I will have a system as perfect as I can get. In fact, my system is currently perfect. (especially after a visit from Kris at 8th Nerve.... see my post under their forum) I can't hear any mistakes that need to be addressed.

So, why am I buying new cables? Because I know it can sound even better. Kris at 8th Nerve confirmed new cables would help. Why would I limit my system by using this inferior cable? It's like, I've got the equipment but I'm not letting it get to my speakers... oh no!

OK, I'm getting too dramatic but, you get my point. Your system satisifies you now but, you're already talking about adding components. What happens when you get a turntable? A new sub-category hobby is formed... 'vinyl'.... good luck with ever being 'finished'. I thought I would be by now.....

Tyson · « **Reply #4 on:** 2 Jun 2003, 08:22 pm »

My advice - get "main" components up front that you are going to be happy with for a long time (CDP, speakers, amp, preamp). This may require stretching the budget. But once you have your "main" system in place, forget about upgrading them for a long, long time. Then you can be free to try out different cables and "tweaks", since the rest of your system is stable, you can hear if there are improvements or not. Once you have a sound you are happy with, you are done.

Oh yes, and treat the room.

Tyson · « **Reply #5 on:** 2 Jun 2003, 08:26 pm »

Also, if you like the "sound" of the maggies, then don't change them, as you won't get the same type of sound from a different speaker. I'd suggest listening to a new speaker before deciding to dump the maggies (due to the unique type of sound they present).

Kishore · « **Reply #6 on:** 2 Jun 2003, 08:39 pm »

Have you applied Room Treatments?- I assure you this will be the 'best' bang for buck upgrade. I wish I had placed emphasis on room treatment first & components next

If you are not happy, replace/play with components- you will know how right or wrong you are

...

FYI...I ALWAYS have urge to change/upgrade for something better.. nothing wrong with it

-but as Tyson stated-you will reach a point where changes/upgrades are marginal or have diminishing returns...

...and I am not there yet

Cheers,
Kishore

markC · « **Reply #7 on:** 2 Jun 2003, 08:56 pm »

I think that my system will always be a work in progress. Swap out a couple of caps here, a couple of tubes there...it's an on-going procedure. Not that I am not reasonably pleased with my current sound, I just feel that it can be improved upon. Must agree with Tyson though, get your main components sorted out-then fiddle about. Hey, that's half the fun! And besides, changing the major components will break the bank a lot sooner than playing with tweaks and up-grades in other areas.

nature boy · « **Reply #8 on:** 2 Jun 2003, 09:03 pm »

I think Tyson and Kishore are spot on. Put the money into high quality equipment on the front end & make sure to treat your room. The latter is especially important given most people forget the room part of the equation in listening.

Speakers tend to be one of the most personal preference items in my experience with helping friends to purchase their system. Folks should remember that there is no substitute for listening. As long as one doen't yearn for the latest and greatest, most audiophiles can be very content.

Just my 2 cents.

NB

drphoto · « **Reply #9 on:** 3 Jun 2003, 01:33 am »

I am going to try some of the 8th Nerve room treatment. I now realize what an important role the room plays due to the drastic improvement I got just from moving my speakers to a different spot.

WilliamL · « **Reply #10 on:** 3 Jun 2003, 01:52 am »

Doc:
Give us a shout. We are always glad to help ya via phone, email, fax, or over in our Eighth Nerve Forum.

Cheers,
Bill

Jay S · « **Reply #11 on:** 3 Jun 2003, 02:04 am »

I think you will be happy with the 8th Nerve room treatments. They are small but quite effective, as I learned at Guan's place. I use a Corrs cd as one of my audition discs (which the HAM must be sick of by now) and in his room and with his system (and room treatments) I could visualize exactly how tall Andrea Corr was, and could imagine her mouth just about 5 feet off the floor (she is around 5'3") (this is a live unplugged album). And it wasn't occupying a larger than life space either. Very nice.

At some point, I need to get my hulking TV set out from between my speakers to get that last bit of imaging accuracy. Not sure if room treatments can fully compensate for it being where it is! I will have to get in touch with Bill Laurent...

I totally agree about getting great main components. If you do, then the differences made by tweaks (cables, filters, etc) become quite apparent and have a noticeable impact on your enjoyment of the sound. To get great components you may have to live with a mismatch for a while as you build up the funds (e.g. I was powering my nOrh 9.0s with a 25 wpc NAD receiver for a few month) but ultimately its worth it.

I don't think I have a desire to change any of my main components at this point. But, that said, I am eager to get a pair of Wayne's new inline bybee filters to try at the digital input of my Mensa Plus and at the output of my preamp!

In general, I am looking for tweaks that I don't think can do any harm to what I already like about my system (e.g. little downside, potentially rewarding upside). This includes things like bybee filters, ERS sheets, room treatment, parallel power filters (Quantum Symphony Pro sounds great!!) and maybe a bit of tube rolling.

Power cords are on my list as well, though marginally so. While they can have a significant positive impact, they can have a negative impact as well relative to your current PC. At least they are easy to take out! What is a pain about PCs is the very long burn in! I just got the matching CryoPhon power cord for my eAR digital amp. It sounded quite bright (your typical unbroken in power cord sound...) when I tried it on Guan's dac so I am now going to burn it in using a computer monitor at work for the next month...

drphoto · « **Reply #12 on:** 3 Jun 2003, 03:52 am »

My Stratos are the regular Monos, though the bias has been 'tipped up' a bit. They are the one's featured in my gallery back at HD, and on the Odyssey website.

Might go for the upgrade at some point.

nathanm · « **Reply #13 on:** 3 Jun 2003, 03:17 pm »

Feeling that your system is never good enough is what separates audiophiles from music fans. I don't mean for that to sound derogatory, though. There wouldn't be much of a hifi industry if people bought a few pieces of gear and kept them for 20 years! The fact that people enjoy changing their equipment constantly is what this whole board is about isn't it? heh!

For me I like to think that I want to reach a point and STOP buying this crap, but it never seems to work out that way. As always, I think it's volume. The day I own my own house and won't bother anyone with my music is the day I think I will stop worrying about damned stereo equipment. But not for want of trying though, just that every last dime will be going towards the mortgage payment!

ehider · « **Reply #14 on:** 3 Jun 2003, 04:49 pm »

If you are extremely happy with your system by all means STOP and enjoy the music. STOP the tweaking! REALLY, I'm serious. My advice is go spend some more money on music. Just enjoy your music man.

Eventually, you will "hear" something that really bothers you with your system that you will drive you to have a change. This is when to start making changes to your system IMHO (unless you win the lottery). For most audiophiles this "drive" to "improve" always occurs regardless of how happy they are at the moment. Now that you have your "moment" of enjoyment, milk it for all it's worth!

Coincidentally my longest run without a system change or tweak was with Magnepan MG-IIIa's. Almost three years without tweaking or changes, and I was damn happy just listening for hours on end. Sometimes I would spend over 30 hours in one weekend just listening and in total bliss! Then I started to "wonder"; what if I had more bass? Better impact? More resolution? This put me back on the audiophile upgrade and tweak trail that I still am trying to get off. I actually miss those days. I discovered more music in those short three years than over the last decade!

Richard Dolan · « **Reply #15 on:** 3 Jun 2003, 09:46 pm »

Quote from: ehider

If you are extremely happy with your system by all means STOP and enjoy the music. STOP the tweaking! REALLY, I'm serious. My advice is go spend some more money on music. Just enjoy your music man.

Eventually, you will "hear" something that really bothers you with your system that you will drive you to have a change. This is when to start making changes to your system IMHO (unless you win the lottery). For most audiophiles this "drive" to "improve" always occurs regardless of how happy they are at the m ...

I totally agree with you. My rig is pushing the 25K range and unless I win the lottery it is not going to change in the near future.....my coin goes towards the music.

Newform Research R645 with an active crossover, Velodyne Sub,Spectron Musician II, ARC monoblocks, Antique Sound Lab Twin Head 2A3-based pre-amp, Shanling CDT 100, Dynaco FM3 tube FM tuner, the usual expensive Nordost cables, power conditioners.

rosconey · « **Reply #16 on:** 4 Jun 2003, 12:05 am »

my step father gave me the disease 20 some years ago-
klipch lascala,big sony ss amp(bigger than my odyssey monos stacked)
mitsu tuner-pre, and cd player when they cost a grand for a cheap one,tt .
he hasnt changed since then except the cd player.
they might be one of six houses in the world without a dvd player,wanted to get them one for xmas but he wouldnt accept it (i just bought a new vcr 2 years ago he said)so i got them a ht in a box that didnt have a dvd built in(very hard to find)he still hasnt hooked it up.he says what he has works so why fix it.
now that i started to aquire nice stuff like odyssey monos ,vmps sub,ect i can almost see his point.
i never owned good stuff before just cheap and loud,

WilliamL · « **Reply #17 on:** 4 Jun 2003, 02:21 am »

This is what I did: Downsize and scale down the two channel system and have a GREAT heaphone system.

This way you only have to worry about sinking tons of money into CD player, headphones, headphone amp, power conditioner/cords, and interconnect.

I do most of my serious listening alone, many times in meditation, so having this as a primary system makes sense. (Also living back in NYC so I have NO ROOM for audio

)

drphoto · « **Reply #18 on:** 4 Jun 2003, 02:50 am »

ehider!

Part of why I like my current setup is your excellent advice regarding the Stan Warren stuff. I still owe you a drink or 2 for that.

I was going to go with the GR Research Alpha (and may still do so someday) based on your glowing review of the Criterion.

Like I said...I just want to chill for a while. I tend to get really obsessed with hobbies to the point where the are more of a chore than fun.

Or maybe it's because I've got other things on my mind these days.

jcoat007 · « **Reply #19 on:** 4 Jun 2003, 09:49 pm »

Quote

This is what I did: Downsize and scale down the two channel system and have a GREAT heaphone system.

This way you only have to worry about sinking tons of money into CD player, headphones, headphone amp, power conditioner/cords, and interconnect.

And with this setup you eliminate the number one problem with most audio systems.....THE ROOM....

Sorry Bill, I couldn't resist.