best cdp under 1000

beat · « **on:** 28 May 2003, 05:17 am »

I'm sure it is a topic that has been beat to death but here it goes. I have been looking at the regas, jolidas, music halls, I think I have even seen some used shanlings for a little over 1100. What do you all think? I have no problem with used gear but would prefer new. should I look at sacd?

Hantra · « **Reply #1 on:** 28 May 2003, 02:06 pm »

Beat:

I have an opinion on everything, but probably most strongly on this. . . .

I think it would be insane to spend $1000 on a CD player. You can get the best transport under 4-5K for around $300, and you can get the best DAC I've heard under $6500 for around $350. Even if you sport hard for a Kimber Select 2020, you're under $1G. I'd put that against ANY front end.

I heard an Accuphase DP-101/CD-100 combo the other day, and it was the best oversampling I had ever heard. That said, after 2-3 hours, there was a hint of fatigue. Not a ton, but I am so used to non-oversampling, I'd much rather have heard my DAC. Even at $30K, the Accuphase combo would not be able to replace what I've got.

Then again, there are those who haven't heard non-oversampling, or really have never heard much live music. Those people won't like it. So, if you're looking for the most live experience, go this way. If not, then there are many great audiophile players that deliver what your typical audiophile is looking for, and are less than $1,000. . .

HTH,

B

byteme · « **Reply #2 on:** 28 May 2003, 02:24 pm »

Beat,

I have to agree with Hantra. It just so happens that we've got the exact same digital front end (not including cable). I ran the gamut of single box players in the $500 range and as soon as I went with an outboard DAC things got better. Then I upgraded the single box into an actual transport which improved things further. I sold that and picked up a Sony DVP-S7700 which provides more detail and musicality than the transport. Sounds fantastic! By the way, the DAC is the Scott Nixon Tubedac with a Siemens E88CC tube. $350 for the Tubedac, $215 for the Sony, $120 for a Virtual Dynamics Audition digital cable and almost nothing for the tube. Well under your limit and as Hantra said, nearly impossible to beat.

Hantra · « **Reply #3 on:** 28 May 2003, 02:31 pm »

Thanks Byte. . I got so excited I forgot to tell him which DAC to get. hehe

dogberry · « **Reply #4 on:** 28 May 2003, 02:57 pm »

Following an article I read at Positive Feedback, get an external NEC MultiSpin 6Xe CD-Rom, a digital cable and the DAC of your choice. I paid $20 for the CDROM On eBay, $15 for a digital cable from Blue Jeans Cable, and I bought a new Channel Islands VDA-1 DAC for $275 also on eBay. And it sounds fantastic. You do not need to spend gobs of cash on a digital front end.

True, I don't have a remote for it, but so what. For the cash I saved...are you kidding?!

Ravi · « **Reply #5 on:** 28 May 2003, 05:31 pm »

Hantra, I may just have to try that Nixon DAC

Sounds very good. I'm still modding an ART DIO right now.

In your opinion, how is the Nixon DAC on vocal music (male or female)? This could be vocals in just about any genre.

Also, my favourite CDPs of all time (I haven't heard them all), are the Linn Ikemi, and the Audio Analogue Maestro (?). Have you ever heard these?

Hantra · « **Reply #6 on:** 28 May 2003, 06:12 pm »

Quote

I'm still modding an ART DIO right now

Good luck with that. . Seriously. . .

I don't feel good about it b/c I have heard a DI/O as modded as it gets, and the only good thing I got from it was that it was very neutral. It was just dry, and sterile compared to the Nixon DAC. It did nothing to make me want to listen to it.

Quote

In your opinion, how is the Nixon DAC on vocal music (male or female)? This could be vocals in just about any genre.

I listen to lots of vocals. From Jerry Garcia to Patricia Barber, the Nixon DAC does vocals with more emotion than any DAC I have heard at any price. The only one that I have heard that's close is the AN 3.1x balanced, and I shot out the Nixon DAC with it. . .

Quote

the Linn Ikemi, and the Audio Analogue Maestro (?). Have you ever heard these?

I also like the Ikemi. I like the CD-12 too. As far as Audio Analogue goes, I owned the Paganini, and it was a fine player. The Nixon DAC kills it in a direct A/B comparison. There is no comparison. A friend of mine just got a used Maestro in on a trade. He's trying to sell it, and I didn't even take it 4 miles to the house to hook it up. After hearing $20-$30K worth of digital, and preferring mine, I am not really interested in unboxing another piece of digital and plugging it in just to not like it.

The Nixon DAC sounds like music sounds. I mean, for 2 hours I listened to the Accuphase setup, and it is a FINE example of oversampling digital. But I found myself longing to find that silence between notes that I am used to in a live show, or on my digital rig. It just wouldn't do it. But unless you have heard a non-oversampling rig, you don't know what that is, so you don't miss it.

I have learned what digital noise is since I got my Nixon DAC.

B

byteme · « **Reply #7 on:** 28 May 2003, 06:34 pm »

Quote from: Hantra

I listen to lots of vocals. From Jerry Garcia to Patricia Barber, the Nixon DAC does vocals with more emotion than any DAC I have heard at any price. The only one that I have heard that's close is the AN 3.1x balanced, and I shot out the Nixon DAC with it. . .
...

Seconded. While I listen to Eva Cassidy, 10k Maniacs, Paul Simon, Sarah, Peter Gabriel, Nora Jones, Frank Sinatra, etc. they all sound fantastic. One of my new favorties is 10000 maniacs unplugged. The live show sounds SO live it's hard not to just sit down and listen no matter what you are doing.

I do have the Mensa+ DI/O "trail kit" on order and am somewhere on the list. It will be interesting to hear in my system vs. the Tubedac. I, of course, will post findings once I've had a chance to listen.

Tyson · « **Reply #8 on:** 28 May 2003, 06:34 pm »

To post a counter point to Hantra's findings, I own the Nixon TubeDAC and the Bolder Cable's Mensa DIO - the Nixon has been relegated to the 2nd system, the Mensa is in the reference 2 channel setup. I prefer the Mensa by a signifigant margin. The Nixon just sounds too soft, IMO (ie, the Mensa beats it in dynamics, precision, focus).

Hantra · « **Reply #9 on:** 28 May 2003, 08:08 pm »

Byte:

I'd be very interested in your findings as well. . .

My DI/O was probably jet-lagged or something b/c it was very far behind the Nixon, as well as every other DAC in the shootout. . It was the same in my own system as well. . .

When are you getting it?

B

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #10 on:** 28 May 2003, 08:09 pm »

Do you guys have a link to info/ordering for the Nixon tube dac? I'm sure it's somewhere on this site but I can't locate it.

Hantra · « **Reply #11 on:** 28 May 2003, 08:30 pm »

http://www.scott-nixon.com

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #12 on:** 28 May 2003, 08:32 pm »

Thanks. I'll check it out.

Wayne1 · « **Reply #13 on:** 28 May 2003, 08:44 pm »

My DI/O was probably jet-lagged or something b/c it was very far behind the Nixon, as well as every other DAC in the shootout. . It was the same in my own system as well. . .

It was probably the altitude

I have heard Tyson's TubeDac in my system, directly compared to his Mensa Plus DI/O, when he came over to pick it up. With the stock wall wart, the TubeDac wasn't even close. When used with the DI/O power supply, it had better dynamics but was still very colored in the mids and not very extended.

Mind you, this is my system, my preferences and my ears

The TubDac does invert phase so you may have to switch your speaker cables' polarity around to match it with your other sources, if you do have more than one source.

Maybe Tyson's TubeDac doesn't like the high altitude and low humidity of CO

Hantra · « **Reply #14 on:** 28 May 2003, 08:54 pm »

That could be the case. . .

You know, Brad's system is very neutral in the first place, and that was before he smoothed it out with the tubed pre, so it could have been that. Plus, when I tried it with my old system, it was when I had the sh*tbox speakers, so. . Who knows?

B

Ravi · « **Reply #15 on:** 28 May 2003, 09:09 pm »

Hantra, thanks, the Nixon Dac sounds like its right up my alley. I'll be sure to give it strongest consideration as my next DAC.

Byte, I also look forward to your impressions, not that I don't trust Hantra

I can see where preferences can take affect, and it seems like the Nixon DAC doesn't synergize well with VMPS speakers, as all VMPS owners seem to prefer the DIO. But synergy is the whole key anyways.

BikeWNC · « **Reply #16 on:** 28 May 2003, 10:02 pm »

I have to agree with Tyson on this one. Of course the differences have all been discussed in previous posts. But, in my brief comparison of these two dacs, I also found the Nixon dac soft and lacking the extension of the Mensa dac. The Mensa had better focus and was much more neutral. But in the end it always comes down to personal preference. If a more warm, vibrant midrange is what you want then the Nixon dac is for you. If bass and treble extension, tighter focus and neutrality are important to you then the Mensa would be the better choice, IMO. YMMV.

Andy

Hantra · « **Reply #17 on:** 28 May 2003, 10:48 pm »

Hey T:

When you used the Nixon, did you swap your speaker cable's phase? I am asking b/c I have found that phase switches in pre-amps, and even swapping phase in the interconnect can have a very detrimental effect on the sound. . .

B

Tyson · « **Reply #18 on:** 28 May 2003, 11:11 pm »

Yes, of course

It made doing the comparison a bit of a PITA, but not anymore difficult than when I was comparing my AI modulus 3A (which inverts phase), with the SL Erleuchtung preamp (which does not invert phase).

I like the Nixon DAC, its just that for the music I listen to (classical and rap), the Mensa does a better job for my tastes.

dawkimi · « **Reply #19 on:** 29 May 2003, 12:21 am »

Where can one find the Sony DVP S7700? I'm assuming they must be purchased used (perhaps on Audiogon?). I currently have a Philips 963SA I'm using as a stand alone player and am wondering how it would compare as a transport versus the Sony with either of the DACs under debate (Nixon Tubedac and Mensa). Also, there is a post about a new BV Audio product (SR 10) that seems pretty interesting and claims to potentially eliminate the need for any outboard DAC and interconnects(taken with a grain of salt). Thanks for providing any information.

Mike