A killer system...

zybar · « **on:** 21 Apr 2006, 01:38 am »

I was lucky enough to sneak away from work for a few hours and visit my friend to hear the latest version of his always evolving system. Before I get into the details of what comprises his system, let me go on record as saying what I heard the other day is the best sound from a home system and right up there with the best sound I have heard from any system period!!

So what gear produced such a reaction?

Vandy 5A speakers
darTZeel amp and preamp
Cary 306 SACD/CD player
Jenna Labs speaker cable, ic's, and power cords
Grand Prix Audio racks

If you don't recognize the vendors, do some searches on google and you will find out this gear has won numerous awards and will cost you much more than I can certainly afford.

So what made it so good?

You name it and this system was SOTA in that area!!

But what really made it for me was the texture, body, and depth that the music had. The music simply flowed and pulled me in. It was intoxicating to listen to and I didn't want to leave. Think of SET tube amp sound + a really good SS amp control, attack, and speed and you start to approach what I heard.

Having heard the Vandy 5A's multiple times at my friend's house as well as elsewhere, I can say that a lot of what I heard was due to the darTZeel gear since it didn't sound this way with the VAC Phi 220 mono amps (not that the VAC amps are any slouch). I think this is one case where the reviewers got it right and didn't exaggerate.

Anyway...kudos to my buddy for putting together a world class system.

George

Hogg · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 Apr 2006, 02:38 am »

Wow what a system. I'm only surprised by the Cary CDP. IMHO he can do better with Ayre, Resolution Audio, Esoteric or Naim.

So George are your audio wheels spinning trying to figure out how to get to parity with your friend?

Jim

zybar · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 Apr 2006, 03:05 am »

Quote from: Hogg

Wow what a system. I'm only surprised by the Cary CDP. IMHO he can do better with Ayre, Resolution Audio, Esoteric or Naim.

So George are your audio wheels spinning trying to figure out how to get to parity with your friend?

Jim

Jim,

Funny you mentioned the front end...

He has tried the Esoteric (found it a little bright and edgey) and has been looking for a used Ayre. I am going to bring my modified Squeeze Box and Bolder PS next visit as I think it will be a better front end than the Cary.

As for my system, I am not sure how to possibly get parity and maintain a "reasonable" budget.

Guess I will just have to settle...

George

gonefishin · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 Apr 2006, 03:27 am »

I just love your description of the sound. Intoxicating

dan

Double Ugly · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 Apr 2006, 03:29 am »

Quote from: zybar

As for my system, I am not sure how to possibly get parity and maintain a "reasonable" budget.

I don't know if you consider $11k "reasonable" , but here's a darTZeel amp on Audiogon.

FWIW, I spoke with the US distributer for darTZeel a while back, who in turn put me in touch with a fellow who'd recently had one for review (and ended up buying it). He told me the darTZeel amps are indeed special, but accroding to him, the at-the-time unreleased darTZeel preamp was the single best audio component he'd ever heard. He opined it would probably sound good with virtually any quality amp, but that the combination of the darTZeel amp and preamp had to be heard to be believed.

Sounds like you're a believer, George.

Jim

zybar · « **Reply #5 on:** 21 Apr 2006, 03:35 am »

Quote from: Double Ugly

I don't know if you consider $11k "reasonable" , but here's a darTZeel amp on Audiogon.

FWIW, I spoke with the US distributer for darTZeel a while back, who in turn put me in touch with a fellow who'd recently had one for review (and ended up buying it). He told me the darTZeel amps are indeed special, but accroding to him, the at-the-time unreleased darTZeel preamp was the single best audio component he'd ever heard. He opin ...

$11k is reasonable if I am buying a used Camry or adding on to my house.

Unfortunately, even if I could spend the $11k on the amp, I don't think it would be a good match for my 86db efficient Salk HT3's - the amp simply wouldn't have enough juice to get the job done. They are a great match with the 86db Vandy 5A's since they have a built in powered sub.

Want to hear the real kicker? The preamp and amp are connected by a $20/meter 50 ohm cable. Yup, $20 between two $20,000 components producing mind numbing sound.

George

JoshK · « **Reply #6 on:** 21 Apr 2006, 03:47 am »

Quote from: zybar

Want to hear the real kicker? The preamp and amp are connected by a $20/meter 50 ohm cable. Yup, $20 between two $20,000 components producing mind numbing sound.

George

That doesn't surprise me at all. While not getting into the cable debate, I can say with reasonable certainty that many/most audiophiles place an unproportional amount of emphasis on cables. In 99% of the cases, they are not the bottleneck. Can you get better performance with better cables? Sure, but that isn't the right question IMO.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #7 on:** 21 Apr 2006, 03:51 am »

Its been a long and varied trip for Horsehead...many different setups. Hope this one works out.

Chris[/list:u]

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #8 on:** 21 Apr 2006, 04:04 am »

On the 5A's....

[/list:u]

shokunin · « **Reply #9 on:** 21 Apr 2006, 04:36 am »

Quote from: zybar

Want to hear the real kicker? The preamp and amp are connected by a $20/meter 50 ohm cable. Yup, $20 between two $20,000 components producing mind numbing sound.

George

Ah, the L-COM CC142B BNC Cables. My L-Com cables just arrived, too bad my preamp is crossing the atlantic or possibly still in switzerland. Of course, both the amp and preamp were designed to use the 50 ohm impedance matched transmission connection. Should be interesting to hear how the Silversmith Palladiums compare to the $50 L-Com cables.

No Vinyl for Horsehead? That's the main reason I bought the preamp, for the killer phonostage.

zybar · « **Reply #10 on:** 21 Apr 2006, 10:57 am »

Quote from: lonewolfny42

On the 5A's....Their look reminds me of the Ohm and KEF speakers from awhile ago....gotta admit...the Salk's look better. [/list]

The Salks do look better (although the bird's eye maple Horesehead has is very nice), but don't sound quite as good.

It would be really interesting to hear some of his gear with the Salks. Given the fact that I moved to MA, it seems unlikely to happen though.

George

Double Ugly · « **Reply #11 on:** 21 Apr 2006, 11:11 am »

Quote from: zybar

Unfortunately, even if I could spend the $11k on the amp, I don't think it would be a good match for my 86db efficient Salk HT3's - the amp simply wouldn't have enough juice to get the job done.

Yeah, I know a little about difficult loads, too. That said, my 110W/ch Butlers do a remarkable job with my speakers, so it's possible they're more capable than you'd expect. I doubt anything this side of Boulder would match the McCormack's vice-like grip on the bass, but...

'Course, you could find another on the used market and passively bi-amp. What's $22k among friends?

Val · « **Reply #12 on:** 21 Apr 2006, 12:33 pm »

Quote from: zybar

You name it and this system was SOTA in that area!!

zybar, what about soundstage height reproduction? Although I haven't listened to Vandersteen 5as, I listened to the original 5s in two different venues and in both cases the soundstage height was not much higher than the top of the speaker, similar to what happens with the Gallo Reference III. For the rest, no surprises here regarding speaker, amp and preamp, and I look forward to your report on the Squeezebox.

zybar · « **Reply #13 on:** 21 Apr 2006, 01:12 pm »

Soundstage height and depth was excellent, but realistic. Soundstage height was above the speaker, but not artifically so. Personally, I don't think it is proper to get an eight or ten foot image height when the speakers are only four feet tall. That being said, this combo created an EXTREMELY lifelike presentation that could help make you believe this was more than a couple of boxes producing sound.

George

toobluvr · « **Reply #14 on:** 21 Apr 2006, 06:14 pm »

Quote from: zybar

.........Want to hear the real kicker? The preamp and amp are connected by a $20/meter 50 ohm cable. Yup, $20 between two $20,000 components producing mind numbing sound.

George

Yep......my buddy around the corner has the DZ amp, and his DZ preamp is on the way.
When he told me about the connecting cable and its price, I just about hit the floor!

Makes you feel like we've all been sold a bill of goods and taken for a cable ride all along....which I kindof already knew.

In his system, DZ amp replaced Lamm monos. Lamms are no slouch, but the sound improved significantly. It got fuller, deeper, richer and more involving with better space.

DZ preamp with phono will replace an already really nice setup: Lamm line stage + EAR 324 phono section.

Looking forward to hearing the full DZ synergy!

Double Ugly · « **Reply #15 on:** 21 Apr 2006, 06:32 pm »

Quote from: shokunin

Ah, the L-COM CC142B BNC Cables. My L-Com cables just arrived, too bad my preamp is crossing the atlantic or possibly still in switzerland. Of course, both the amp and preamp were designed to use the 50 ohm impedance matched transmission connection. Should be interesting to hear how the Silversmith Palladiums compare to the $50 L-Com cables.

It's too bad we live so far apart. Assuming you would have been interested, I'd have jumped at the opportunity to hear your equipment and compare it with my own (your 'Zeel amp and my Butler Monad monoblocks, your Palladiums and my Stealth Indra, etc.).

Would've been interesting, not to mention educational.

PhilNYC · « **Reply #16 on:** 21 Apr 2006, 07:42 pm »

Quote from: zybar

Unfortunately, even if I could spend the $11k on the amp, I don't think it would be a good match for my 86db efficient Salk HT3's - the amp simply wouldn't have enough juice to get the job done.

I had similar thoughts about gear in my system too...until recently. The recent power supply upgrade on my preamp has resulted in a sound in my system that I didn't think possible without moving to a more high-powered amp. So I'm now not convinced that an 86db speaker needs gobs and gobs of power to sound great...

shokunin · « **Reply #17 on:** 22 Apr 2006, 03:19 am »

When I first inserted the dartzeel amplifier in my system, I thought it wouldn't have enough juice to power my current-hungry VMPS RM/x's. Prior to the dart, I was using the Ampzilla 2000 Monoblocks. Which, BTW are very good amps and match well with VMPS ribbons or any speaker that may need a touch of warmth.

The dart is rated at 160W at 4ohms and the dart surpasses the Ampzillas in nearly every categaory, with the exception of bass impact and kick. Slight putty adjustment made up some differences but not completely. Since I don't listen at really loud levels, 160W has been more than enough for me and have yet to clip the amp.

Music seems to emerge from dead silence and the micro dynamics are stunning. Transients and spatial imaging are exceptional. I no longer even notice the slight loss in bass impact as the other areas of improvement make the music so much more engaging.

Horsehead must have gotten one of the first runs of the Dart Preamp, backorders are slowly trickling in...

zybar · « **Reply #18 on:** 22 Apr 2006, 12:30 pm »

At Horsehead's the darT at times was blinking brightly back at us during cuts from Rusted Root, Hugh Masekela, and a few others. Since his room is smaller than mine and his Vandy 5A's have powered subs, I came to the conclusion that it might not be the best match for my Salk HT3's.

It is a moot point as I am not going to spend the money needed to acquire the darT.

BTW, it is everything Shokunin described and more!

George

zako · « **Reply #19 on:** 22 Apr 2006, 05:24 pm »

Double ugly.....Your avatar of the Phantom II was designed at Mcdonnell Douglas by a friend of mine Toney Wong..He called it the Phantom Spook. It is still in copyright owned by Boeng. Tony passed away a couple of years ago. He did many variations of the Spook over 30 years. I,m glad to see it again.