aksonic developments

econ · « **on:** 30 Mar 2006, 02:05 pm »

From the latest news update:

Quote

I might add that three months ago, Ron and I fitted the AKSonic with the Scan Speak top line speaker and the Revelator tweeter - and the results were just astonishing. It was the best two way I've ever heard, so with suitable modifications to the crossover this too may be an upgrade option. BUT, the drivers are VERY expensive!

Huge rap there Hugh! Are you able to tell us more ? Or just teasin'?

Felipe · « **Reply #1 on:** 30 Mar 2006, 03:33 pm »

Both those drivers (if same ones i am thinking of) cost about 350€.
That makes 1400€ worth of drivers.....quite costly to a 2-way DIY speaker !

If the best 2-way speaker is to be achieved i guess the Ribbon tweeter is the way to go.... or maybe go to a 3-way aksonic.

AKSA · « **Reply #2 on:** 31 Mar 2006, 01:57 am »

Hi Paul, Felipe,

Still talking with Ron. This is a difficult negotiation...... heck, I might have to design the damn thing myself!!

Cheers,

Hugh

rookster · « **Reply #3 on:** 31 Mar 2006, 09:49 am »

Hugh,

As per our recent e-mails, I am very interested in this Aksonics upgrade. I think there will be a bit of interest, but the costing will be the deciding factor.

I know the upgrade will be expensive, but I invested a lot of time and a bit of money to build my cabinets so I am hesitant to build new cabinets for another design. And with my 4 channels of Aksa 55N+ and GK-1, I am keen to stay an all Aksa system.

rabbitz · « **Reply #4 on:** 31 Mar 2006, 11:43 am »

When costing Scan Speak drivers in Australia have a look at my site as they are priced to suit the DIYer (shameless plug).

Of course a better price can be done for the full set of drivers when the final design is known.

DSK · « **Reply #5 on:** 31 Mar 2006, 12:02 pm »

Quote from: rabbitz

When costing Scan Speak drivers in Australia have a look at my site as they are priced to suit the DIYer (shameless plug).

Of course a better price can be done for the full set of drivers when the final design is known.

Hi Rabbitz, do those prices include GST?

rabbitz · « **Reply #6 on:** 31 Mar 2006, 12:14 pm »

Yep, GST included.

Felipe · « **Reply #7 on:** 31 Mar 2006, 01:35 pm »

Those are nice looking prices....too bad its in AUS.

rabbitz · « **Reply #8 on:** 3 Apr 2006, 01:42 am »

Here's an update for Australian builders with the number of drivers available for the Aksonics.

The distributor has advised that there are ample XT25TG30-04 in stock and these will not be discontinued but there are only 4 M18WO-09-08 left.

RonR · « **Reply #9 on:** 3 Apr 2006, 09:36 pm »

Re: The Vifa M18WO-09-08

There is a possible replacement Vifa Mid-Bass driver for this application which appears to be very similar. The Vifa part number is PL18WO-09-08. (PL standing for Premium Line.)

I thought about using this driver in my Aksonics, but I don't have the expertise in driver technology to compare them on specs alone.
Eventually I was able to source some M18WO-09-08s through a local dealer.

For those who'd like to compare:

Datasheet for M18WO-09-08 can be found here

Datasheet for PL18WO-09-08 can be found here

Maybe someone who knows these drivers can chime in with a definitive answer (can there be such a thing in Hi-Fi?)

Cheers,

Ron.

Seano · « **Reply #10 on:** 3 Apr 2006, 10:23 pm »

Looks much the same to me if you look at the waveform.....in fact the PL looks to have a more consistent waveform up high than the discontinued.

Only curiousity I have is with a wildly lower mechanical Q with the PL (but a very similar total Q) and a slightly lower equivalent volume.but electricaly they seem rather similar.

I'm not much at x-over design but I'd have assumed that given the adjustable nature of the cabinet there'd not be much to play with in terms of the xover.....just the cabinet volume.

Anyone got a speaker modelling program?

jules · « **Reply #11 on:** 3 Apr 2006, 11:28 pm »

The above seems to be following the Vifa/Peerless line but Hugh is suggesting Scanspeak and maybe even a re-think on design. So here's an idea that could be built up as you have the money ...

* Basic system a two way using the ring tweeter and the topline 6.5" revelator 18W8545. Cost of drivers about $1400 for a pair.

* Additional build, a separately boxed [but connectable in a leggo sense] 10" 25W8565 [or maybe a 10" Peerless]. Cost of a pair of drivers ~ $600.

Yes, I realize the Xover issues with a move up from two to three way are a challenge but this would be a relatively painless way to expand a system and quite possibly a brilliant match for the Aksa 100s. Maybe there could even be a dipole option here with a pair of woofers. The cost of the extra driver would in some ways be offset by the simpler cabinet construction.

jules

AKSA · « **Reply #12 on:** 3 Apr 2006, 11:35 pm »

Thanks Peter, Ron.

The heads up on WES Components stock is very useful, Peter, appreciated.

Ron, these speakers are very alike, I agree. Force factor is 7.8 on the PL, 7.5 on the M, with very similar impedances and VAS, but very different mechanical Q (2.46 compared to 6.7). I do not fully understand the mechanisms of Q, but with a lower Q I would guess that the enclosure would need more damping, perhaps even less volume. This should make it more punchy, more alive, but at the cost of refinement. At this stage I would like to redevelop the AKSonics myself, perhaps with Ben's input, but I literally have four projects on the go at present and stretching myself this thin is courting disaster.....

Thanks for all the suggestions, the PL series would be MUCH cheaper than the Scanspeak driver, but having now heard the ring radiator I would be keen to move in that direction as the cost has just dropped locally $100 to $AUD395, which is very high, but just affordable.

Cheers,

Hugh

RonR · « **Reply #13 on:** 4 Apr 2006, 01:07 pm »

Hi All,

Firstly, I've no objection to the Aksonics being re-engineered for ScanSpeak drivers, but looking at the UK prices, I don't think I'll be getting them anytime soon:

Price for 1 "Ring Radiator" Tweeter:
Aus: 395 AUD = 162 GBP (is that including sales tax?)
GB : 572 AUD = 235 GBP including VAT

It might be more cost effective to ship from Aus to GB, rather than buy locally!

Secondly, I thought the "PL" Vifa drivers might be a drop-in replacement, thereby prolonging the life of the Aksonic II design without impinging on Hugh's valuable development time. But it was not to be.

Cheers,

Ron.

rabbitz · « **Reply #14 on:** 4 Apr 2006, 01:37 pm »

That price of AU$395 is wholesale and not the retail price.

I've found there is rarely a drop in replacement for a driver and normally the crossover and testing has to be done all over again to get the sonics right. Alas, the PL18 is going to disappear as well.... RIP.

Have a look at some info from a meeting with Tymphany http://www.zaphaudio.com/tymphany.html which gives some indication to what is staying and what is going to disappear. Not too good for companies with a product using these drivers, with the Aksonics being an example in that category.

Jason1 · « **Reply #15 on:** 4 Apr 2006, 03:02 pm »

Quote from: rabbitz

That price of AU$395 is wholesale and not the retail price.

I've found there is rarely a drop in replacement for a driver and normally the crossover and testing has to be done all over again to get the sonics right. Alas, the PL18 is going to disappear as well.... RIP.

Have a look at some info from a meeting with Tymphany http://www.zaphaudio.com/tymphany.html which gives some indication to what is staying and what is going to disappear. Not too good for companies with a product using these drivers, with the Aksonics being an example in that category.

The PL series will remain:

Quote from: J Krutke

Summed up, just about anything older than 6 or 7 years will be discontinued. The entire XT series remains, the DX series tweeters, the PL woofers, and a couple others remain.

rabbitz · « **Reply #16 on:** 4 Apr 2006, 03:31 pm »

Quote from: Jason1

The PL series will remain:

You're right... they had the mid woofers only up to the PL14WJ and stuck the others under the woofers section.

http://www.tymphany.com/products_Peerless_vline.html

bhobba · « **Reply #17 on:** 5 Apr 2006, 01:37 am »

Quote from: AKSA

Thanks for all the suggestions, the PL series would be MUCH cheaper than the Scanspeak driver, but having now heard the ring radiator I would be keen to move in that direction as the cost has just dropped locally $100 to $AUD395, which is very high, but just affordable.

Have you thought about the BG Neo 3 which guys in the know like Dennis Murphy claim is as good or better than the top of the line tweeters like the Hiquphon and costs US $48?.
http://www.gr-research.com/drivers/bg_planar.htm

Or perhaps the North D28-06S which is slightly less detailed but has better lower and upper treble and is much cheaper and is easy to design a crossover for?
http://www.northcreekmusic.com/Drivers/NorthD28-06S.PDF

The revelator woofer looks awsome.

Thanks
Bill

rimljan99 · « **Reply #18 on:** 5 Apr 2006, 04:25 pm »

Quote from: jules

* Basic system a two way using the ring tweeter and the topline 6.5" revelator 18W8545.

The SS 18W8545 is the classic paper cone unit, not revelator. Revelator SS units have sliced paper cones (example 18W8531) and they are 30% more expensive.

I think that SS 18W8531 driver is one of the best midbass drivers avaibable on market today...

econ · « **Reply #19 on:** 7 Apr 2006, 07:00 am »

A bit off topic but Ive just bought some drivers
from Rabbitz thro' his website.
Like Hugh , excellent service.