[TomW16]

As a matter of fact, any attorney can & will tell you the actual legal purpose of any "limited warranty" is to expresly & explicitly spell out the LIMITS of the manufacturer's liability in the area of warranty claims.

Thanks for the clarification Jim.  I didn't mean to suggest that the warranty would cover everything under the sun but rather manufacturing defects, which has little to do with distribution channels.

I also like marvda1's suggestion that the original purchaser could submit a registration card and/or receipt at the time of purchase so that any future warranty claim would be covered.

I wish Bryston continued success with the new policy noting that it is an unlikely event that any owner would require warrany work based on the quality of the manufacturing.

Tom

[dan_lo]

I also like marvda1's suggestion. Seems a very good compromise.

[julian]

The warranty details in the technical / misc. documents section make no mention of the new conditions, I guess this is just an oversight; could be confusing though.

[James Tanner]

Hi Julian,

Thanks I will have a look at that.

james

[James Tanner]

Hi,

I am disappointed by the suggestion that Bryston is trying to get out of it's obligations to provide a quality warranty to all our customers. We have never been about that. In fact if you look at our history we have been one of the few companies which have supported our customer base without question.

The world has changed and the new warranty program is designed to support all Authorized Bryston sales throughout the world.

james

[perose]

The world has changed and the new warranty program is designed to support all Authorized Bryston sales throughout the world.

Unauthorized dealers illegally selling Bryston product do nothing but undermine the long-term value and quality of the product.

I would agree with the first quote however the second quote just doesn't seem logical.

Bottom line is that Bryston can do what ever the heck they want to insure their long term success in this business. It seems from the new product developments discussed on this board that Bryston is making a bigger push into the high end consumer electronics business and needs to establish a solid network to get their wares represented. You can only go so far selling pro gear (mainly amps) that as mentioned above almost never fail. BTW, I wonder how many pros are going to keep their bill of sale for warranty purposes?

I love my 7bB-STs and would like to get more Bryston gear someday however, I wouldn't give the sweat off my left (toe) to my local Bryston dealer. When I shop I drive 90 miles so that I can get some real service. But with this new policy I won't be nearly as comfortable considering used equipment and will now look at other brands since the warranty safety net is a little less certian with this new requirement. If there was a way for Bryston to retain serial numbers of equipment that meets their new warranty requirements, it would it would do a lot to relieve the fear of buying used.

[MattH]

Hi..

A quick question for James,

"The warranty will only be honored in the country of the original purchase unless otherwise pre-authorized by Bryston."

Does the above also only apply to post Feb 2006 kit ? I only ask as I know that my Sp1.7 was bought in Canada, brought back to the UK and then converted by PMC (I have the receipts for that.. not the original sale)

Is there anything I need to do to ensure the warranty will be ok in this case ?

Regards

Matt

[James Tanner]

Hi Matt,

Your fine - None of the new Warranty policy applies to products purchased with date codes before 0608.

By authorized we mean that if one of our customers moves from one country to another they can have their unit re-registered in that country.

Also some customers may need to go from 120V/60Hz to 240V/50Hz or vice-versa. The distributor in the appropriate country would be authorized to change it and re-register the amp with the new voltage etc.

james

[Phil A]

Hi,

I am disappointed by the suggestion that Bryston is trying to get out of it's obligations to provide a quality warranty to all our customers. We have never been about that. In fact if you look at our history we have been one of the few companies which have supported our customer base without question.

The world has changed and the new warranty program is designed to support all Authorized Bryston sales throughout the world.

james

I think everyone needs to look at this from that standpoint of the authorized dealer, the co. as well as the consumer.  Because of Bryston's past warranty policy, I do know dealers who don't like carrying in to compete against those unauthorized sellers.  Even a lightly used one can be sold at a price point that would make it not particularly worth it for dealers.  Many cos. offer transferred warranty on used products only when sold by authorized dealers and if not, the warranty only extends to the orig. pruchaser and if that orig. purchaser sells it, it is w/o a warranty to the next buyer.  So in essence the way things worked in the past, it could turn off legit dealers who will carry less product and also hurt the co.

Now I'm not saying the co. is perfect or all the dealers.  For all we know some of those dealers may be selling to unauthorized dealers.  If that is the case, this will differentiate what an an authorized dealer sells vs. an unauthorized one.  I do think that the co., where possible should make every effort to register purchases (can't force people to register) along with good plain marking of inserted materials with a product to let consumer know about the policy and the effective date as well as clear policy listed on the website that is easy to find.  I bought my 14BSST and 6BSST amps a couple of yrs. back and I'm sure it's still standard policy for seller's on Audigon and other places to list the warranty as 20 yrs.  Perhaps it would also be a good thing for Bryston to contact these seller's by E-Mail and try to give them information for editing the ad so that the serial no. is listed with the date of manuf. and at least where those sellers' cooperate (can't force anyone), the ad could be edited to spell out it is an old unit prior to the change in warranty policy (with perhaps a link to the Bryston warranty policy on the website).  This could help with regular browsers of such a site to get educated and avoid situation both consumers and the co. does not want.  I think there are about 30-40 Bryston) roducts listed on Audiogon at most times and to send E-mails to the peope placing ads every several mos. to try to get eduation out to the public would not be that time consuming.

[MattH]

Thanks for that..  

Cheers

Matt

[skrivis]

Hi,

I am disappointed by the suggestion that Bryston is trying to get out of it's obligations to provide a quality warranty to all our customers. We have never been about that. In fact if you look at our history we have been one of the few companies which have supported our customer base without question.

The world has changed and the new warranty program is designed to support all Authorized Bryston sales throughout the world.

james

The real reason for this is to protect your legitimate dealer network.

A side effect is that you penalize unwary customers, even though you've still made your money on the product they bought.

The middlemen in the grey market probably won't care that you've changed the warranty policy. Bryston products seem to be made well enough that repair will only be needed after a long period of time has elapsed, by which point the customer may have difficulty seeking any recourse from the seller(s).

If you really cared about the whole issue, you'd require that the product be registered, and that Bryston be informed of warranty transfers to subsequent owners. That would protect your customers, and also tell you right away if one of your dealers is transhipping. (The last time I bought some Crown products, this is the way they handled it. You had to send a registration in to get the actual warranty ID card.) In other words, you're willing to do some of the work and not dump it all on the customer.

I also wonder if US laws have changed. Things like the Magnuson Act used to make it hard for companies to duck their responsibility to stand behind their warranty.

My position on this can be summed up as, "It's a Bryston product, Bryston  made money off of it, and Bryston better stand behind the product." If there are problems with your dealer network, then clamp down on them. Don't shaft the end customer.

What happens if I buy a Bryston product from an unauthorized dealer and they lied when I asked if they were authorized? How much effort do I need to expend to protect myself? As I said, the problem is with your dealer network, not at my end. (If your dealers weren't cheating, there would be no product for unauthorized sellers to sell. Unless you're selling product outside of the authorized dealer network yourselves?)

[samurai]

Will american version of Used Bryston amps be covered in UK if the amp is purchased from authorised dealer and registerd and comes with reciept and what if there is no reciept but is registerd . the reason I am asking is it is lot easy to get used bryston amp from america as it is big market then UK.

[James Tanner]

Hi,

If you purchased a used 120 volt amp in the US it would have to go to the Distributor in the UK to be changed to a 240V/50Hz version and then re-registered in the UK under that voltage.

The amplifier would have to have the original bill of sale from an authorized Bryston dealer to qualify for warranty continuation if the date code was at or above 0608.

james

[Phil A]

"What happens if I buy a Bryston product from an unauthorized dealer and they lied when I asked if they were authorized? How much effort do I need to expend to protect myself? As I said, the problem is with your dealer network, not at my end. (If your dealers weren't cheating, there would be no product for unauthorized sellers to sell. Unless you're selling product outside of the authorized dealer network yourselves?)"

I think it is relatively easy to check here:

http://www.bryston.ca/dealer.html

If there is a doubt, James Tanner is very responsive.  I've never had a problem getting a prompt answer to any question.  I sent him an E-Mail the other day about my SP 1.7 remote and got an answer within hours.

I think many people are making way too much of a change that impacts unit sales going forward and seems to be prudent business practice of eliminating unauthorized sales of product that hurts the legit dealer network and the co.  I've misplaced receipts before and had no problem getting duplicates from a legit dealer when I sold a piece of equipment (not Bryston) and the buyer wanted it for the balance remaining on the 5yr. warranty I had.  My attitude is that if you think you'll get better support from another co. - good luck.  I've owned lots of things, including Bryston in the past as well as present, and never had better support.

[HPower]

I understand Bryston's reasoning for their policy change, it is to protect the interests of their
authorized dealers, not to try to cut down on warranty  costs.
I have the same problem as mentioned by others, the same people that Bryston are trying
to protect (their dealers) are the same people that must be causing the problem.
Where are the unauthorized units coming from:

1) delivery trucks getting hi-jacked... could happen, I guess.
2) someone in Peterborough is selling them off the loading dock.
3) very good counterfeit units with serial numbers... doubt that.

Where they are most likely coming from:
from the "authorized dealers" selling them to a 3rd party "grey market"
or selling as a "grey market" seller, themselves.

For the best example I have seen of this is the car audio company, JL Audio.
Go to Ebay and search JL Audio. I just did, and there were no less than 1, 000
items, most from internet dealers.
JL does not authorize any internet sales, where could all these items originate from!

The same question can be asked of James and Bryston.

It is just like most major sports leagues, the owners find it impossible to police themselves as far as
how much they spend on what they pay their players so they legislate devices like salary caps into the player agreements.

Basically this does the same thing that Bryston is trying to do, protect themselves, from themselves.

I don't mean any disrespect for James and Bryston but I wish they could have come up with a better/different solution,
to what must be a frustrating problem.

Bryston always has and still does stand behind their products better than any other brand,
well I guess Odyssey Audio is up there too.
But for me, living in Canada, this will dramatically reduce the used market
if I want to maintain Bryrton's best feature...
 
their warranty.[/i]

[gostan]

I think that it is time to let up on Bryston and JT.  Let's all take a little personal responsiblity when we buy or sell Bryston.  Or any other manufacturer's product, for that matter.  

How difficult is it to get or give a serial number and a copy of the sales slip on Bryston units manufactured after February 8, 2006, and to determine that the unit was purchased from an authorized dealer.  Caveat Emptor!

Yes, it's a change, but these "the bottom will fall out of the used Bryston market" rants are not likely to be true at all.  Bryston is still the same great company that it has always been.  Let's all take some personal responsiblity in our audio purchases (and in life in general) and move on to something more important.

[HPower]

Hey gostan,

I for one, am not trying to bust JT's b@!!s.

Bryston is trying to combat a legitimate problem, protecting their
better above board dealers.
It is their below board dealers that are actually causing the problem.

Anyways, the only problem I have is the effect that the new policy will have on the future of cross-border shopping in the used market.

If I want to sell or buy a post FEB. 06 Bryston (with a warranty) here in Canada
my options have been dramatically reduced.
Look at the Bryston listing on Agon vs, CAM.

That's my main beef.

[skrivis]

I understand Bryston's reasoning for their policy change, it is to protect the interests of their
authorized dealers, not to try to cut down on warranty  costs.
I have the same problem as mentioned by others, the same people that Bryston are trying
to protect (their dealers) are the same people that must be causing the problem.

Bryston always has and still does stand behind their products better than any other brand,

Agreed. The problem is not the quality of support Bryston offers.

The problem is that, in order to discipline some rogue dealers, Bryston is hurting possibly unsuspecting customers.

I've seen the same issues with cameras. There's a large grey market in Nikon cameras (as well as others). Nikon USA (the US importer) does not want to pay to support cameras that didn't come from them. Ok, can't argue with that. So Nikon USA clamped down and won't provide service for Nikon cameras, just Nikon USA cameras. In this case, Nikon seems to be unwilling to stop the problem by shutting down the importers or dealers outside the US who are selling product into the grey market.

If you're buying a Nikon product from a large national chain of stores, you're probably getting legit product. From anywhere else, you don't know until you look at the warranty cards. Even those could be fake, because there are some dealers out there that open the factory-sealed box and reseal it.

Microsoft has done a whole bunch of things designed to foil software pirates. They haven't been noticeably effective at doing so. In fact, the main thing curbing piracy of Linux in some places seems to be the availability of Linux.

All of these anti-piracy measures that are supposed to harm the illegitimate sellers and users really wind up harming the end user, even the ones who bought legit copies of MS software. (Legit users get to jump through hoops to use their purchase. Also, wanna

Similarly, the new Bryston policy will only harm unsuspecting customers who paid good money for a Bryston product. (And Bryston still gets a chunk of that money unless there are large numbers of counterfeit Bryston products being sold.)

Bryston should be able to readily zero in on their dealers that are causing the problem. They know where the product was shipped to originally. Tehy could even require dealers to supply customer information to justify each sale, if that would help.

So why harm the end user who bought a product with the Bryston name? Why not go after the real culprits?

[marvda1]

here's a question, if bryston knows which serial numbers are going to each dealer wouldn't it be simple to figure out who is selling the grey market units?

[James Tanner]

here's a question, if bryston knows which serial numbers are going to each dealer wouldn't it be simple to figure out who is selling the grey market units?

Only if there was a warranty issue and that is usually long after the event.

james