New ULTRA DAC just arrived...

Zheeeem · « **on:** 23 Feb 2006, 03:06 am »

...and man-oh-man does it ever not suck.

I've had it running for no more than 1/2 an hour, so it's not properly settled in. But I can tell its a winner.

ajzepp · « **Reply #1 on:** 23 Feb 2006, 04:14 am »

What are you using for a transport? And can you comment on the differences between the DAC and whatever you were using before? I'm very interested in this product....it'll probably be the second thing I buy from Frank, after I figure out which amp to go with.

skrivis · « **Reply #2 on:** 23 Feb 2006, 02:44 pm »

Quote from: ajzepp

What are you using for a transport? And can you comment on the differences between the DAC and whatever you were using before? I'm very interested in this product....it'll probably be the second thing I buy from Frank, after I figure out which amp to go with.

I don't have the Ultra DAC, I just have an OmegaStar one. I needed a new transport, and the only CD players at reasonable prices weren't suitable. (There's like 1 CD player at a reasonable price and it doesn't have a digital out. From there you see a lot of CD changers until you get up to higher prices.)

I bought a Philips DVD player for $60 and it works fine as a CD transport.

The CD changers probably aren't too bad, but they're more complex mechanically, so are more likely to break.

The market has changed so that most people buy a DVD player for their HT system and can also play CDs with it. That's where the competition is, and that's where you'll see the best values. Other than portable CD players, it looks like the CD player business is dead.

My DVD player replaced an older Philips CD player. I have noticed no difference in the sound of my system, except that the old CD player sometimes just stopped playing, so the new player is far better in that respect.

I can hear the difference between my AVA DAC and the regular analog outputs of the CD player or DVD player. Without the DAC, cymbals sound kind of sizzly and don't really sound metallic. With the DAC, cymbals sound like cymbals. Solo piano also sounds more dynamic and real with the AVA DAC.

I've tried a few other DACs over the years that friends brought over, but I prefer the AVA one.

Zheeeem · « **Reply #3 on:** 23 Feb 2006, 10:34 pm »

Quote from: ajzepp

What are you using for a transport? And can you comment on the differences between the DAC and whatever you were using before? I'm very interested in this product....it'll probably be the second thing I buy from Frank, after I figure out which amp to go with.

I'm using a HK 720 as transport.

I was using an Omega DAC previously, then for 2 months while the Omega was being upgraded to Ultra I used the inboard DAC on the HK.

The HK inboard DAC is virtually unlistenable - hard and very 2 dimensional. It has all the graininess of a cheap inboard unit.

It's better than the Omega. Bear in mind that I have a particular fondness for the Omega because it made an absolutely night and day difference in the way CDs sounded. Probably the biggest differences with the Ultra include improved musicality, slightly darker and warmer, and better tonal definition. I still feel that, for CD listeners, the DAC is arguably the most important bit of electronics. A first listen suggests that this is a great DAC.

ajzepp · « **Reply #4 on:** 24 Feb 2006, 12:57 am »

Awesome, thanks guys....sounds like this is the way to go....I'm psyched

TjMV3 · « **Reply #5 on:** 24 Feb 2006, 01:32 pm »

Quote from: skrivis

That's where the competition is, and that's where you'll see the best values. Other than portable CD players, it looks like the CD player business is dead.
...

Ummm.....no quite.

There are a load of real nice single disc, redbook cd players out there.

You simply have to look around some. Vincent, Rega, Eastern Electric Mininamx, Primare , C.E.C, Arcam, Cambridge, Canary Audio and dozens of other designers and manufactors are producing CD players that run from average...to good...to wonderful....to excellent. It's not dead. People are still buying CD Players. They still have a niche'.

avahifi · « **Reply #6 on:** 24 Feb 2006, 03:41 pm »

Actually the Ultra DAC or OmegaStar DAC should work just fine with any DVD/CD combo players at the major discount stores. Avoid no-name brands for future service issues and durability. Make sure the unit has a coax digital output jack (RCA Jack). Check that it will play all modes that you might need CD, DVD, CD-R CD+R, ect.

The unit then should be just fine for CD playback and the audio on DVD movies too.

For some reason I do not understand, our DACs are not working with the "digital" output on either my big Sony HD tv set or on the Motorola Cable box "digital" output either. I suspect these digital outputs are not normal audio standards, but if one of you out there have better technical info about this I would appreciate it.

For now I have to come out the analog audio outputs on my cable box for the sound for my video system and I would like to do better if possible.

Frank Van Alstine

skrivis · « **Reply #7 on:** 24 Feb 2006, 08:24 pm »

Quote from: TjMV3

Quote from: skrivis
That's where the competition is, and that's where you'll see the best values. Other than portable CD players, it looks like the CD player business is dead.
...

Ummm.....no quite.

There are a load of real nice single disc, redbook cd players out there.

You simply have to look around some. Vincent, Rega, Eastern Electric Mininamx, Primare , C.E.C, Arcam, Cambridge, Canary Audio and dozens of other designers and manufactors are producing CD players that run from a ...

I don't recognize some of the names, but I doubt that we're talking about rational prices here. Cambridge comes close, but they're still more than they should be. CD players are now disposable commodity items and the prices should reflect that.

WEEZ · « **Reply #8 on:** 24 Feb 2006, 11:17 pm »

skrivis, it's the cheap DVD players that are becoming 'disposable commodities'. Hell, soon they'll be giving them away with a fill-up of gas.

WEEZ

avahifi · « **Reply #9 on:** 24 Feb 2006, 11:41 pm »

I don't think it is even possible to buy a single play CD player at Best Buy or its ilk any more at all.

Frank Van Alstine

skrivis · « **Reply #10 on:** 24 Feb 2006, 11:46 pm »

Quote from: WEEZ

skrivis, it's the cheap DVD players that are becoming 'disposable commodities'. Hell, soon they'll be giving them away with a fill-up of gas.

WEEZ

Yeah, it looks like home CD players have actually gone beyond commodity status and are now not being manufactured at all. Teac is about the only one with a single-disc player, and it's aimed at the mid-fi market or something because it doesn't have a digital out.

I bought a Philips DVP642 for $59.95 at Best Buy. The remote feels flimsier than my previous Philips and Magnavox CD players, but that's typical of most products with a remote these days. I'll just have to remember not to step on the remote.

It was completely plug and play with this DVD player. No TV is needed to set it up to play CDs or anything. It functions just like a CD player with extra buttons on the remote.

It doesn't seem to sound much different from my prior player. If anything, psychologically it sounds better because it's new. hehe

When this one dies in a few years (I bet I'll get at least 5 out of it), I'll buy another disposable player. <shrug>

If you spend more on a CD transport, I think you've spent money you didn't need to. But hey, that $2000 CD transport will go great with your $1000 power cord.

(Josh, I'm not aiming this one at you. It's a general dig at the credulous.)

You're far better off throwing money at the D/A convertor, which is where the real problems are (in the analog part of it actually).

So save that money you were going to spend on a transport and power cord and buy some more CDs instead! You'll get more pleasure for your buck that way.

WEEZ · « **Reply #11 on:** 25 Feb 2006, 12:41 am »

Frank, you're probably right as far as the 'retail chains'....

I don't know sh#t about digital technology..I'm an analog loving (mostly Grado) type, so excuse my ignorance here but I've been thru a few DVD 'all-format' players and for audio they suck. Now I understand that their DAC's are not in the same league as yours- but it's not just the DAC that makes them suck- it's the build quality.

The cheap DVD players are junk, IMHO.

I'll bet that an Audio Note or CEC transport with an AVA DAC would sound awesome but that wouldn't come cheap. But neither does good quality LP analog.

(Congratulations Zheeeem on your new DAC!. At least you're not using a cheap DVD transport..)

WEEZ

WEEZ · « **Reply #12 on:** 25 Feb 2006, 01:04 am »

skrivis, you need to get out more.

There are plenty of CD/CDR only players available..just not at your local appliance store. You know what they used to say.."Buy your hi-fi at an appliance store and your hi-fi will sound like an appliance".

(I can't believe you use a $60 transport with a $800 DAC. That would be like using a $2500 Grado 'Statement' cartridge on a MMF-2.1 turntable- an unlikely combination to say the least....)

Hey, to each their own..

WEEZ

Zheeeem · « **Reply #13 on:** 25 Feb 2006, 01:54 pm »

Quote from: WEEZ

(Congratulations Zheeeem on your new DAC!. At least you're not using a cheap DVD transport..)

Nope. I'm using a cheap CD player as a transport.

In its day, the HK 720 was rated as pretty awful sounding. And if you run the audio circuits, the reviews were pretty much spot on. I had to live with it for 2 months while Frank was rebuilding my DAC. Flat and grainy would sum it up.

However, despite having read several esoteric and occasionally quite bizarre explanations of why digital out from a very expensive transport is better than the digital out from a cheap transport in a cheap CD player, I'm afraid I just don't get it. Yeah, yeah, jitter and all that. But it's not clear this will make any audible difference at all within certain norms.

If I was a rich man, I might be taking a very different approach to audio. However something tells me that the main changes I'd make would be building a better listening room and buying more source material.

skrivis · « **Reply #14 on:** 27 Feb 2006, 02:02 am »

Quote from: WEEZ

skrivis, you need to get out more.

There are plenty of CD/CDR only players available..just not at your local appliance store. You know what they used to say.."Buy your hi-fi at an appliance store and your hi-fi will sound like an appliance".

(I can't believe you use a $60 transport with a $800 DAC. That would be like using a $2500 Grado 'Statement' cartridge on a MMF-2.1 turntable- an unlikely combination to say the least....)

Hey, to each their own..

WEEZ

I'm usually pretty good at knowing where to spend my money. The DAC is the right place to spend it and the transport is not, assuming some minimal level of quality. Philips does a good job on their CD and DVD transports. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find their stuff still being used in the gussied up "audiophile" stuff.

You never know, you might be spending $2000 on a CD player that uses the same transport as my $60 player.

It also doesn't do much good to apply analog turntable style fixes to the digital realm.

ricmon · « **Reply #15 on:** 27 Feb 2006, 08:58 pm »

There are lots of good single box cd players. I happen to own a very nice one. the Creek CD50 MKII. Also check out some of these.

http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/categorylisting.asp?hdnCat=CD+Players&sel=1&CategoryID=20

TjMV3 · « **Reply #16 on:** 27 Feb 2006, 09:06 pm »

There are tons of single-disc CD Players out there....tons. Single-disc CD Players in every price range you can imagine.

Just because Best Buy and Circut City are not carrying them, doesn't mean a whole lot in the scheme of things.

I have no idea where some people come up with this stuff.

skrivis · « **Reply #17 on:** 27 Feb 2006, 09:46 pm »

Quote from: TjMV3

There are tons of single-disc CD Players out there....tons. Single-disc CD Players in every price range you can imagine.

Just because Best Buy and Circut City are not carrying them, doesn't mean a whole lot in the scheme of things.

I have no idea where some people come up with this stuff.

And I don't know where you come up with that stuff.

I looked around quite a bit and found a couple of single-CD CD players for under $US150. Both were from TEAC, were the same player in two different chassis, and didn't have a digital out. Everything else I saw was a multiple CD changer.

I didn't see anything available from Philips or any of the major Japanese companies. Best Buy and Circuit City were the _last_ places I checked. I'll admit I only looked via the net, but that should be sufficient.

Yeah, I think I did see a few Dong Fu Washing Machine and CD Player Co. models, but those don't count.

skrivis · « **Reply #18 on:** 27 Feb 2006, 09:52 pm »

Quote from: Zheeeem

Yeah, yeah, jitter and all that.

The info I found says that jitter was a problem 10 years ago, but modern D/A convertors reclock the signal anyway, so it's no longer an issue.

When I asked people to show me some info on jitter, they pointed me to some Stereophile article from the early '90s.

skrivis · « **Reply #19 on:** 27 Feb 2006, 10:00 pm »

Quote from: ricmon

There are lots of good single box cd players. I happen to own a very nice one. the Creek CD50 MKII. Also check out some of these.

http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/categorylisting.asp?hdnCat=CD+Players&sel=1&CategoryID=20

That's about an order of magnitude too expensive. I already have a good DAC and was looking for a transport.