[plaf26]

I've been using the Philips CDR-600 with my OmegaStar DAC.  It's a CD recorder and has coaxial digital output.  DVD players also have digital outputs (often both coax and optical) and will read CDs just fine.  I just bought a Sony today at Best Buy for 80 bucks for our church hall's rear projection TV setup.

[TjMV3]

And I don't know where you come up with that stuff.

I looked around quite a bit and found a couple of single-CD CD players for under $US150. Both were from TEAC, were the same player in two different chassis, and didn't have a digital out. Everything else I saw was a multiple CD changer.

I didn't see anything available from Philips or any of the major Japanese companies. Best Buy and Circuit City were the _last_ places I checked. I'll admit I only looked via the net, but that should be sufficient.
 ...

Oh,  you're talking about the $150 price range,  I see.

Yeah,  CD Players in that price range are now called....Portable Boom Boxes or Shelf-Sysytems

I believe you have to go up to the $400-$500 price range.  That's where you start to find a lot of CD Players.

[Tom]

Frank said:  "For some reason I do not understand, our DACs are not working with the "digital" output on either my big Sony HD tv set or on the Motorola Cable box "digital" output either. I suspect these digital outputs are not normal audio standards, but if one of you out there have better technical info about this I would appreciate it."

That's simple enough:  the digital output of these devices is most likely Dolby Digital surround encoded.  It is not two-channel Redbook digital.  This output is meant to feed the digital input of a surround receiver.

[OTL]

That's about an order of magnitude too expensive. I already have a good DAC and was looking for a transport.

The CAL Alpha DAC and Delta transport have been in my rig since '94.  Always musical and neither has ever skipped a beat.

Although an old school Red Book transport, a used Delta brings a lot to the table.  It sounds great, and yes, transports DO sound different.  Come on by and I'll prove it using my CAL Alpha.  It also supports RCA, XLR and Toslink outputs with ST fiber as an option.  The remote rocks with options and programmability thought out for CD-to-CD recording.  

You can pick up a Delta for <$300 if you're quick with the email.  Here's the spec's plagarized from http://www.universityaudio.com/cal.htm

Delta CD Transport

CAL's Delta exhibits extraordinary attention to detail. From the proprietary transport, to the low-jitter circuit design, to the superb power supply, the Delta makes no compromise in achieving its goal of perfect digital data recovery. The product of exhaustive listening and refinement, this first critical component in the digital music reproduction process fulfills the promise of the compact disc's enormous potential. The Delta is designed under the premise that great music begins at the source.

Delta CD Transport Specifications
Proprietary CAL Digital Servo/Singlebeam Laser Transport
Ten times the tracking accuracy over analog servo mechanisms reduces data errors requiring interpolative error correction, thus the original performance is faithfully captured.
Low Jitter Design
System-wide approach to improved digital timing accuracy for increased fidelity of the final analog waveform after DAC processing. The reproduced music more faithfully mirrors the original performance.
Superior Power Supply Configuration
Six separate regulated supplies effectively prevent interstage interference and current-source modulation from affecting the audio signal's purity.
Superior Output Performance and Flexibility
For demanding applications, a standard, broadcast-quality AES/EBU balanced XLR output complements the coaxial and EIAJ Toslink outputs for flexibility and superior performance in any application. An AT&T ST optical output is available as an option.
Multilayer Heavy Steel/Machine Screw Chassis Construction
Eliminates external vibration for reduced microphonics, noticeably reducing data errors and improving the purity of the reproduced signal.
Digital Output Impedance: 110 Ohms (Balanced) 75 Ohms (Unbalanced)
Output Voltage: 7.0 V Peak-to-peak (Balanced) 700 mV Peak-to-peak (Unbalanced)
Dimensions: 8.5" W x 12.5" D x 4.5" H
Weight: 10.5 lb
Power Consumption: 24 W

Hope this helps.
mykebee

[skrivis]

The CAL Alpha DAC and Delta transport have been in my rig since '94.  Always musical and neither has ever skipped a beat.

Although an old school Red Book transport, a used Delta brings a lot to the table.  It sounds great, and yes, transports DO sound different.  Come on by and I'll prove it using my CAL Alpha.  It also supports RCA, XLR and Toslink outputs with ST fiber as an option.  The remote rocks with options and programmability thought out for CD-to-CD recording.  

You can pick up a Delta for & ...

I'll just stick with my new transport for $60, thank you. I don't see much point in buying a 10 year old one that will probably conk out soon. After all, I just got rid of a 10 year old player.

[Zheeeem]

I'll just stick with my new transport for $60, thank you. I don't see much point in buying a 10 year old one that will probably conk out soon.

Man.  How can you call yourself an audiophile with an attitude like that?

[WEEZ]

Zheeeem and skrivis should have a shootout and may the best cheap transport win!

If I was a betting man (which I am!) I'd bet that the CD transport/AVA DAC combo wipes the floor with the DVD transport/AVA DAC combo.

Hey, I agree that the DAC is v-e-r-y important. ( So is a phono cartridge )

But so is the 'machine' that spins 'em.... whether they're the little silver ones or the big black ones.

(okay..flame away... )

WEEZ

[OTL]

I'll just stick with my new transport for $60, thank you. I don't see much point in buying a 10 year old one that will probably conk out soon. After all, I just got rid of a 10 year old player.

Well lessee, and I'll state right up front that I have no investment in your personal musical enjoyment or CAL Audio gear for that matter, but let me tell ya' pardner that the $240 delta (pardon the pun) between your solution and my suggestion are many, many light years apart based on my decade  of listening.

Aren't you the least bit curious as to why people are willing to part with hard cash for a 12+ year old Red Book transport ? CAL Deltas get snapped up on Audiogon in minutes.  Take a deep breath.......

Now, I could go on about the CAL Alpha/Deltas and Raytheon tubes as well as  other NOS tubes, and how you can swap in two resistors to adjust overall gain, and how having BNC and XLR and Toslink and ST optics allow the flexibilty to listen to and evaluate upstream and downstream changes and the killer programmable remote.....but you've already spent your $60 bucks.

As a newbee here I'm risking all kinds of credibility, but, a used CAL Delta has to be the best deal on the planet for the price.  Absolutely no exceptions.

Just do it and thank me (us) later.  Godspeed.


Mike B.

[OTL]

I'll just stick with my new transport for $60, thank you. I don't see much point in buying a 10 year old one that will probably conk out soon.

Man.  How can you call yourself an audiophile with an attitude like that?

Xactly!  Hope someone's listeningg.

[Q]

Curious if money would be better spent on a DEQX, rather than a moderately expensive DAC?  Any help here would be appreciated.

[skrivis]

Well lessee, and I'll state right up front that I have no investment in your personal musical enjoyment or CAL Audio gear for that matter, but let me tell ya' pardner that the $240 delta (pardon the pun) between your solution and my suggestion are many, many light years apart based on my decade  of listening.

Aren't you the least bit curious as to why people are willing to part with hard cash for a 12+ year old Red Book transport ? CAL Deltas get snapped up on Audiogon in minutes.  Take a deep breath.... ...

People pay all kinds of money for stuff of dubious value. I see 'em lined up at the gas station all the time buying lottery tickets.

No offense, but I just don't see it, and I'm not the least bit interested in spending money on it.

[skrivis]

I'll just stick with my new transport for $60, thank you. I don't see much point in buying a 10 year old one that will probably conk out soon.

Man.  How can you call yourself an audiophile with an attitude like that?

I guess I'm not an audiophile.

I'm actually a musicphile, and the audio gear is just a means to an end as far as my spending money on it and using it.

I _am_ quite interested in the technology, but rational technical explanations are sorely lacking in much of the audio industry.

[skrivis]

Zheeeem and skrivis should have a shootout and may the best cheap transport win!

If I was a betting man (which I am!) I'd bet that the CD transport/AVA DAC combo wipes the floor with the DVD transport/AVA DAC combo.

Hey, I agree that the DAC is v-e-r-y important. ( So is a phono cartridge )

But so is the 'machine' that spins 'em.... whether they're the little silver ones or the big black ones.

(okay..flame away... )

WEEZ

I think you're trying to apply analog ideas to digital.

My DVD player is capable of handling the datastream, audio and video, from a DVD movie. That's more data than a CD player can push. If it can do that, plain CD should be easy for it.

[WEEZ]

Whether you're spinning a silver disc or a black one; you would still want to isolate any vibration as best you can from the environment, right?

Precise speed(s); mechanical isolation; elecrical isolation; etc.- whether you're spining lp's, cd's; or even tapes- it matters in each case.

Just for shits and giggles, my son and I compared my cheap Toshiba DVD player with his cheap Pioneer CD only player. Granted- we were not using a DAC of AVA quality- only the internal self contained players. The CD player was far and away better sounding. No comparison. There must be something to the way that DVD players are designed..(i.e., they must be searching for the video layer- and when it's not there- the machine makes a compromise, or something  

Just seems to me, that there is something going on somewhere. Just compare a good transport's weight to a cheap transport. ( I can lift my DVD player with two fingers. ( okay, maybe one hand ). My CD player weighs 17 lbs. ( that takes both hands and a slight strain on my aging shoulders ) I don't use my DVD player for music. It sucks.

Glad you're happy with your $60 transport. Why don't you just use your computer drive into your DAC? You could have saved  $60 bucks.

WEEZ

[skrivis]

Whether you're spinning a silver disc or a black one; you would still want to isolate any vibration as best you can from the environment, right?

That's analog thinking too. It isn't a problem with CD or DVD like it is with LP. There's no reinforcement at all. (Also known as feedback, and employed for musical effect with the electric guitar.)

Precise speed(s); mechanical isolation; elecrical isolation; etc.- whether you're spining lp's, cd's; or even tapes- it matters in each case.

More analog thinking. It's not as applicable to digital as you might think.

Just for shits and giggles, my son and I compared my cheap Toshiba DVD player with his cheap Pioneer CD only player. Granted- we were not using a DAC of AVA quality- only the internal self contained players. The CD pla

So you were comparing the D/A of a CD player with the D/A of a DVD player. Don't take that and spin it into "CD players are better transports than DVD players."

Glad you're happy with your $60 transport. Why don't you just use your computer drive into your DAC? You could have saved $60 bucks.
...

My stereo is in the other room. I have 5 computers in this room, and the stereo and big TV are in the living room/great room. $60 for a DVD player is cheaper than whatever I'd use to transport a 44.1 MHz signal 30 feet or so. The DVD player will likely last me for at least a few years, and I bought it because my old transport was malfunctioning. Sounds like I spent a reasonable sum of money on a reasonable product...

[TomW16]

A few years ago I was going to upgrade my amp but had to trade in my Theta Universal trasport to help fund the purchase.  When I brought home the new amp for a demo and swapped out the Theta transport for a DVD player to be used as a transport, the sound changed for the worse,  essentially nullifying any advantage the new amp had.  Since I had both transports, I could compare both with nothing else changing in the system.  

Back went the amp and I am still using the Theta transport.  I don't know how to explain it but the transport did make a difference in my case.

Tom

P.S.  I eventually upgraded to the AVA 350 EXR amp and love it.

[skrivis]

A few years ago I was going to upgrade my amp but had to trade in my Theta Universal trasport to help fund the purchase.  When I brought home the new amp for a demo and swapped out the Theta transport for a DVD player to be used as a transport, the sound changed for the worse,  essentially nullifying any advantage the new amp had.  Since I had both transports, I could compare both with nothing else changing in the system.  

Back went the amp and I am still using the Theta transport.  I don't know how to  ...

Ok, I'm glad you like it and it works best for you.

But I'm still not going to waste money on a digital source tweaked with analog techniques.

And... my $60 DVD player sounds wonderful feeding my OmegaStar DAC.

[skrivis]

Ok, I'm glad you like it and it works best for you.

But I'm still not going to waste money on a digital source tweaked with analog techniques.

And... my $60 DVD player sounds wonderful feeding my OmegaStar DAC.

You know, if I had said I paid $600 for some DVD player, nobody would have said anything.

It isn't like I bought some off-shore off-brand. It's a Philips player. They do know what they're doing.

It does not have some of the very worthwhile features for video that more expensive DVD players have. But it does produce a more than acceptable picture.

If it can handle DVD, it can handle CD.

Nobody has come forward and offered any rational reasons why I would want to spend more money on a transport. I get "It can't be any good because it's only $60." Or "CD transport XYZ sounds lots mo' betta." Then there's "You need a big massive CD transport that's just like those big honking expensive turntables made out of the Rock of Gibraltar."

[mark funk]

Well in my 3 1/2 decades of playing with HiFi I have found there is allways someone that wants to take your money! Tell you anything you want too hear. How can you compair transports by listening to output circuits? I have a Denon CD player, Philips DVD/VCR combo, Marantz CD player. When listening to them without a stand alone DAC, The Philips sounds the best and the Denon by far the worst! When useing a stand alone DAC (Transcendence R DAC) I can not hear any difference and that goes for cables tooo! I see the oil is still flowing.

[TomW16]

While I agree that there should not be a difference between transports when using an outboard DAC (bits are bits, right?), I did hear a difference in my case.  The only rational explanation for my situation was that the actual digital reader was better quality with the Theta than the other DVD player (used as a transport).

I remember reading that although bits are bits, sometimes not all the bits can be read off of the disk and extrapolation occurs to fill in the missing data.  The better the reader the less missing data and the less extrapolation required.

Of course, that was years ago and likely the technology has improved to the point where the differences between readers is negligible regardless of cost.

Tom