Should I be Insulted? & Why No Respect?

skrivis · « **Reply #20 on:** 10 Jan 2006, 05:46 pm »

I do have to say that I don't really have anything against very expensive luxury goods or the people that buy them. If they work better or please you more, go for it.

I'm not at all convinced that very expensive audio gear always works better, and it certainly seems like the audio mags spend too much time reviewing the expensive stuff most people can't afford.

Everything that I have seen about the Wilson stuff though, says to me that it's simply expensive.

Papajin · « **Reply #21 on:** 10 Jan 2006, 08:47 pm »

So is the Wilson stuff basically Boutique Bose? Better sound through hype?

zybar · « **Reply #22 on:** 10 Jan 2006, 08:59 pm »

Quote from: Papajin

So is the Wilson stuff basically Boutique Bose? Better sound through hype?

NO!!

While I agree that it is overpriced, the Wilson products are extremely well built and do produce good sound.

Do I like their house sound? Not really.

Would I buy a pair? Nope.

But please don't think compare Wilson to Bose.

George

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #23 on:** 10 Jan 2006, 10:04 pm »

If you can get get great sound for a million bucks, how about a trillion? At some point we've put all the science and real technology we have into a product- spending more will just be wasting it. Problem is no one seems to agree where that price point is. And naturally, many expensive products don't incorporate any advanced or useful technology; they're merely inefficiently produced or priced to reflect an enormous ad budget.

miklorsmith · « **Reply #24 on:** 10 Jan 2006, 10:39 pm »

Wilson = Bose for guys with deeper pockets!?

Considering the allegations against Wilson buyers not being sophisticated nor understanding their speakers, I'd say the comparison is amusing or more. Combine that with the fact that lots of audioheads don't like how they sound. . .You can get a Lifestyle system for what? $1,000? Are the Wilsons 20x or 60x or 140x better?

I don't actually think they're the same, but they are both fronted by gifted marketing, considered overpriced by those "in the know", and their buyers are ignoramuses, according to the illuminati.

PhilNYC · « **Reply #25 on:** 10 Jan 2006, 10:47 pm »

Quote from: Rob Babcock

If you can get get great sound for a million bucks, how about a trillion? .

For a trillion, I'd just pay the Boston Symphony to have an orgy with no birth control, then adopt all the resulting kids...

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #26 on:** 10 Jan 2006, 10:48 pm »

Quote from: PhilNYC

Quote from: Rob Babcock
If you can get get great sound for a million bucks, how about a trillion? .

For a trillion, I'd just pay the Boston Symphony to have an orgy with no birth control, then adopt all the resulting kids...

Sort of the opposite to "instant gratification", though!

PhilNYC · « **Reply #27 on:** 10 Jan 2006, 10:51 pm »

Quote from: Rob Babcock

Sort of the opposite to "instant gratification", though!

Great systems do take time to build....

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #28 on:** 10 Jan 2006, 11:13 pm »

Just remember a few will sport nose rings and play Linkin Park.

_scotty_ · « **Reply #29 on:** 11 Jan 2006, 12:43 am »

What most people in this hobby don't realize is that when more money is spent in expectation of superior sound it is not an assured outcome.
What is required is brains applied to producing a better sounding product.
More money won't buy a smarter designers efforts. There appears to no relationship between money spent and sonic results at all.
You don't always get what you pay for in this hobby.
Scotty

jermmd · « **Reply #30 on:** 11 Jan 2006, 01:19 am »

The Wilson owner who this thread originally referred to knows music, has been in this hobby for a long time, and has owned a ton of equipment. His system may cost what many of us consider an obscene amount of money, so much so that it actually offends people, but I have no doubt that he has amazing sound in his listening room. He has had many experienced audiophiles to his home and they have universally praised his system. That doesn't mean his system is better than mine but it does deserve the respect of people like us who appreciate the quest for audio nirvana.

I have found what I think is the best for me and I often think my system is better than other people's rigs. Not because my system is expensive-it is to me-but because I know it and I like it. The guy with the expensive system is no worse than the guy with the great sounding budget system who looks down upon those "fools" who overpaid for their system.

Does that make sense?

Bill Baker · « **Reply #31 on:** 11 Jan 2006, 01:33 am »

Quote

Does that make sense?

That's makes perfect sense. As I mentioned in my post, I have my preferences and voice my products in that direction but also appreciate all other gear no matter what the cost.

Wilson is a different animal. He will personall state that his speakers are "theoretically" perfect. His finishes are state of the art and I have no doubt they sound amazing. Maybe not my flavor, but amazing non-the-less.

We need not put down those who have expensive audio systems rather share in their passion in this great hobby.

davei · « **Reply #32 on:** 11 Jan 2006, 03:55 am »

Quote from: PhilNYC

Quote from: Rob Babcock

Sort of the opposite to "instant gratification", though!

Great systems do take time to build....

but a lifetime to enjoy, no matter the cost, the music only matters! money don't buy good sound. we do, what i like may not sound good to you? why does it matter what we spend! you have to make yourself happy! i can give you IMHO, but what does that mean to you nothing, why YOU should hear it for yourself!
BTW i want to hear the Salk's!

GHM · « **Reply #33 on:** 11 Jan 2006, 06:17 am »

I can sympathize to some degree with you guys. The part that gets me with some not all of these fellows. Are the ones that post stating " Looking for a preamp that cost $15,000" or something to that effect. I'm always puzzled by this. It's fairly obvious this guy is just looking for some gear to out do one of his buddys whose system he has seen or heard but really knows nothing about. Let's get this straight.... He's looking for a peice of gear for an exact amount of money but hasn't heard any of it.

I've been lucky enough to have been a jack of several trades and the master of none

. When I worked in telecommunications . I got a chance to meet many people and be in their homes from the east coast to the west coast. I've been in thousands of homes from the rich to the poor.

There has been many times where the guy with that mentality that I'm refering to, felt as though he was being ripped off because I didn't charge enough. I've had other techs in the same business to admit charging these type of people more, because the person didn't feel secure being charged less. Now does that make any sense? It doesn't too me!

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #34 on:** 11 Jan 2006, 06:26 am »

Yep. A certain segment of people define themselves and their self esteem by how much money they spend. Truly these people "know the price of everything and the value of nothing."

nathanm · « **Reply #35 on:** 11 Jan 2006, 08:07 pm »

I thought the "Ultimate Preamp" wasn't really a preamp at all, but simply two resistors. Why would you pay $15,000 for that? Switching sources?

This is the paradox of hifi that I see, you spend more to get more; more metal casework, more circuitry, more parts, better parts...which makes sense. But then they say that the simplest path sounds the best so shouldn't better sound cost less? If you're spending $15,000 you must want it do Do Something to the sound, so it should add an effect of one kind or another, right? So how could an expensive system sound more like real music with so much more 'stuff' in the path? I don't get it.

As long as you're spending money on cosmetics and wow factor I'm cool with high dollar stuff, but I don't quite get how if maximum transparency and the least harm done to the signal is the goal, that you need to spend crazy money. Wouldn't it be best to jack your CD player direct to your amp and accept whatever loud SPLs come out?

jsalk · « **Reply #36 on:** 12 Jan 2006, 03:42 am »

Quote from: GHM

There has been many times where the guy with that mentality that I'm referring to, felt as though he was being ripped off because I didn't charge enough. I've had other techs in the same business to admit charging these type of people more, because the person didn't feel secure being charged less. Now does that make any sense? It doesn't too me!

How true!

Just yesterday (really , yesterday) I was talking to a high-end cabinet maker in the complex I have my shop in. He told me he thought I should raise my prices dramatically. To illustrate this his point, he related the incident that resulted in his pricing strategies. Here was his story:

A couple earning about $400K per year paid him a visit and asked him if he could design a dining table for them.

He generated a design that they loved. When they asked him how much it would cost, he said it was quite labor-intensive and could cost as much as $15,000 to produce. He never heard from them again.

A few weeks later, a "design consultant" paid him a visit. She had a client that wanted a very high-end dining table. She showed him some drawings.

Of course, they were his original drawings. The only thing that changed was that his name was removed from them.

He looked at the drawings and told her he thought the design was very nice (he didn't mention that he was the original designer). He told her it would be expensive to produce - about $20,000.

She said, "Fine, here's a check for $5000 down. Give them an invoice for $25,000 - $20,000 for you and $5000 for me."

While the couple knew that the person who built their new table was the same person they had originally received the $15,000 quote from, they never acknowledged the fact and never complained.

His point was that they did not want a $15,000 table. They wanted something better. They wanted a $25,000 table and were happy to pay extra to get what they wanted.

Would HT3's sound better if they cost $15,000 - $20,000 per pair like other speakers with similar drivers? Of course not. But I bet there would be some who might regard them as superior.

Price increases go into effect on June 1st

.

- Jim

zybar · « **Reply #37 on:** 12 Jan 2006, 03:47 am »

Well to each their own...

I will be VERY happy getting the $25,000 table for $5,000!!

Keep up the great work Jim.

George

ekovalsky · « **Reply #38 on:** 12 Jan 2006, 05:21 am »

Quote from: jermmd

The Wilson owner who this thread originally referred to knows music, has been in this hobby for a long time, and has owned a ton of equipment. His system may cost what many of us consider an obscene amount of money, so much so that it actually offends people, but I have no doubt that he has amazing sound in his listening room. He has had many experienced audiophiles to his home and they have universally praised his system. That doesn't mean his system is better than mine but it does deserve the respect of p ...

Steve is a great guy and true audiophile. He is partly to thank for my current speakers, which were previously owned by one of his neighbors.

He no doubt got a nice deal on his pair of X2 since he has been a customer of Wilson and a particular dealer for a long time. Still they cost bank and the inference that his babies were not a great value hit a nerve, not unexpectedly.

I'm sure he'd love the opportunity to hear the Salks and would no doubt be as impressed with them as everyone else has been.

Next time I go to the bay area I plan on inviting myself to hear the latest iteration of his system, and also the Rockport Hyperions that the former owner of my Alons now has.

ekovalsky · « **Reply #39 on:** 12 Jan 2006, 05:24 am »

Funny story Jim. All I can say is those people are morons, glad you can make them a nice table and bank an extra $5k!

I guess I'm a cheapskate at heart. Whatever I buy -- audio, jewelry, autos, etc -- I always try to it at the lowest possible price. It's all about value ! Paying more just to brag about the high price never made sense to me.