Center channel and projectors and screens

pennylane · « **on:** 29 Dec 2005, 02:39 am »

I'm thinking of getting a projector to use for home theater. However, I wonder how a center speaker channel will work if there's a giant screen in the way. What do people with projectors do? Do they keep the center channel behind the screen? Do they put the center channel on top of the screen? I expect to have a 100" or so image so putting the center channel on top would be a little high. Any suggestions would be welcome.

Thanks in advance.

Woodsea · « **Reply #1 on:** 29 Dec 2005, 02:52 am »

I have mine sitting above the TV and below the screen. My next post I will lower all three once I buy a new tele. I would think above the screen would be cumbersome and not on the the same horizontal line as the front left and right speakers.

John151 · « **Reply #2 on:** 29 Dec 2005, 02:52 am »

I have a 116" 4:3 screen, so I know what you are talking about. I found that nixing the center is the best solution for me. In the AVR config screens, I set the center channel to NONE, so the AVR sends the center channel content to the Left and Right channels. I have the center speaker in place, but it is just not active, and people don't believe me when I tell them it is not active as the voices really do sound like they are coming from the center speaker.

matix · « **Reply #3 on:** 29 Dec 2005, 02:58 am »

Quote from: John151

I have a 116" 4:3 screen, so I know what you are talking about. I found that nixing the center is the best solution for me. In the AVR config screens, I set the center channel to NONE, so the AVR sends the center channel content to the Left and Right channels. I have the center speaker in place, but it is just not active, and people don't believe me when I tell them it is not active as the voices really do sound like they are coming from the center speaker.

Is this how one achieve the so called "phantom centre"? Got to try it too...

John151 · « **Reply #4 on:** 29 Dec 2005, 03:02 am »

Quote from: matix

Is this how one achieve the so called "phantom centre"? Got to try it too...

Yes!

ted_b · « **Reply #5 on:** 29 Dec 2005, 03:15 am »

I find the center channel as being very very important in HT and 5.1 multichannel music. IMHO, the phantom center setup is a workaround for those folks who can't match the front soundstage, or who don't have room for an adequate center speaker. However, a phantom cetainly might be better than a center speaker that doesn't blend. The center should be the brother of the mains, or an exact model.

This is from my gallery link below, and shows my RM30C as my center, sitting beneath a 120 inch 16:9 Stewart screen. The center speaker stand allows for a slight tilt upward.

Woodsea · « **Reply #6 on:** 29 Dec 2005, 04:33 am »

I could not imagine my HT without a center

ctviggen · « **Reply #7 on:** 29 Dec 2005, 01:09 pm »

Ted,

What are those devices next to the RMx's? They look like diffusive elements. I've done a test between no center and with center. For many movies, no center sounds surprisingly good (assuming you're sitting in the middle). With action movies, though, the center helps a ton.

jermmd · « **Reply #8 on:** 29 Dec 2005, 01:36 pm »

Ted B,

Very nice set up. I have a similar configuration with the center below the screen angled upward. In truth, the center channel is not vital unless you watch and listen from off axis/sides.

ctviggen · « **Reply #9 on:** 29 Dec 2005, 02:02 pm »

I would recommend trying no center. You might be surprised at how good it is. The tests where I thought a center helped were the opening scenes of The Fellowship of The Ring and the metal detector scene in The Matrix. For these, the center helped stabilize the image, improve the voices, and help even out the bass. On my system, using an older Proceed AVP, the LOTR was particularly bad (at very high volumes, I might add) with no center. My RM40s started breaking up with no center.

John151 · « **Reply #10 on:** 29 Dec 2005, 04:26 pm »

Quote from: ctviggen

I would recommend trying no center. You might be surprised at how good it is.

I agree with that!

However, I think the results will vary greatly with different set ups. In my family room, I am running a center channel mounted on top of the TV, with in wall speakers for the L/R channels. Because the L/R speakers are much further apart than I would like, the system really needs the center channel. However, in my HT, the speakers are closer together (at the edges of he screen), and are closer (3' out from the screen), so the geometry is much different.

ted_b · « **Reply #11 on:** 29 Dec 2005, 05:09 pm »

The diffuser devices on the sides are RoomLenses. The two on the left are simply there because one of them is moved out of the center position for movie watching. The setup is shown in my gallery Visio diagram, one on the outward edge of each RM/X and one placed behind the center channel, near the front wall. They are helmholtz resonators and do a great job of focusing the soundstage, especially combined with first reflection dampening and diffusion curtains behind the mains. I got them used and they were a bargain.

It's just me but I have found no example of when a phantom center is better than my center in any way. Hirez multichannel, 7.1 DVD movie soundtracks, DTS 5.1 cd listening, etc. YMMV.

bubba966 · « **Reply #12 on:** 29 Dec 2005, 05:13 pm »

My thoughts on center or no center is that the center is the most important speaker in a HT setup.

That said most people with front pj's usually put the center underneath the screen.

If that doesn't work you can get a micro-perf (or other "acoustically transparent" type of screen) screen and then place the center channel behind the sceen.

John151 · « **Reply #13 on:** 29 Dec 2005, 05:56 pm »

Quote from: ted_b

It's just me but I have found no example of when a phantom center is better than my center in any way. Hirez multichannel, 7.1 DVD movie soundtracks, DTS 5.1 cd listening, etc. YMMV.

No one is saying that a phantom center is better than a dedicated center channel under ideal conditions. Keep in mind that you have an ultimate set up with few, if any, comprimises. Most of us have to live with signifcant comprimises, and constant WAF issues.

ted_b · « **Reply #14 on:** 29 Dec 2005, 06:46 pm »

Quote from: John151

Quote from: ted_b
It's just me but I have found no example of when a phantom center is better than my center in any way. Hirez multichannel, 7.1 DVD movie soundtracks, DTS 5.1 cd listening, etc. YMMV.

No one is saying that a phantom center is better than a dedicated center channel under ideal conditions. Keep in mind that you have an ultimate set up with few, if any, comprimises. Most of us have to live with signifcant comprimises, and constant WAF issues.

I thought you were saying exactly that, sorry. That's why responses such as "center is most important in HT" are being posted. You have a NOT small 116" screen (not exactly run of the mill high WAF) and you said that nixing the center is your solution. I wasn't trying to flaunt anything, just responded to the posts.

John151 · « **Reply #15 on:** 29 Dec 2005, 07:09 pm »

Sorry, I was responding to the statment "I wonder how a center speaker channel will work if there's a giant screen in the way", so I failed to explicitly state that I would have to have my center mounted extremely high, or extremely low, resulting in poor imaging. I actually own 3 center channel speakers, but with the lousy positioning, I prefer the phantom center approach over all 3 given my positioning issues.

For those who are running dedicated centers, you might try the phantom center just for grins (all that is needed is to turn off the center in the AVR). I think you will be surprised at how well it works. Again, just for grins, not suggesting that the phantom would work better than a dedicated center in all applications.

klh · « **Reply #16 on:** 29 Dec 2005, 09:12 pm »

The easiest thing to do would be to get your speakers before you get the screen and center channel. Then play your DVDs in phantom mode and see if you are happy. If so, problem solved. Buy the best screen you can justify and you'll be extremely happy. If you're not satisfied, then think about whether you want the center channel behind or below the screen and buy the screen accordingly. The only thing you wouldd have lost is a little time. If, on the other hand, you decide you don't need the center channel, you would save your self from having to deal with returning a center channel, having an unnecessary sound transparant screen and spending excessively.

ted_b · « **Reply #17 on:** 29 Dec 2005, 10:32 pm »

Quote from: klh

The easiest thing to do would be to get your speakers before you get the screen and center channel. Then play your DVDs in phantom mode and see if you are happy. If so, problem solved. Buy the best screen you can justify and you'll be extremely happy. If you're not satisfied, then think about whether you want the center channel behind or below the screen and buy the screen accordingly. The only thing you wouldd have lost is a little time. If, on the other hand, you decide you don't need the center channel, ...

Pennylane, Do you not have your speakers? Are you using the Polks as mains?

pennylane · « **Reply #18 on:** 29 Dec 2005, 11:17 pm »

Quote from: ted_b

Pennylane, Do you not have your speakers? Are you using the Polks as mains?

Sorry for not being clear. I'm asking for my brother and the home theater set-up at home. The speakers I have listed in my speaker profile here are from my dorm set-up.

I think I will tell my brother to first try a phantom center... and if not that, perhaps a center channel under the screen angled up.

ted_b · « **Reply #19 on:** 29 Dec 2005, 11:26 pm »

What are his main left and right speakers that will be used?