[tdangelo]

any ideas?  I want to draw a diagram of my room so I can post it and get suggestions.

Thanks

[ctviggen]

Do you have access to word or power point?  They would both work.  Other than that, I'm not sure.  Paint could also work.

[tdangelo]

yeah I do

Thanks

[ted_b]

I used Visio (and used a demo downloaded copy).  This is from my gallery (the center has been replaced with an RM30c, and gallery Visio drawing updated)

[ted_b]

Here's the trial page.  I used one of the building templates (office or home planner I think)

http://www.microsoft.com/office/visio/prodinfo/trial.mspx

[ctviggen]

That should work better than word or power point.

[ScottMayo]

I used Visio (and used a demo downloaded copy).  This is from my gallery (the center has been replaced with an RM30c)

Nice arrangement. You might want to look at treating more of the reflection points, and getting a little diffusion behind the RM/x. I liked the overlay of the subs and the bass traps; have you found that sharpens up the bass?

[ctviggen]

Speaking of that, I have two of these (one for each Larger):
http://www.asc-home-theater.com/sub.htm

Don't know how well it works though -- right after I got these, my amp blew.  I got the amp fixed though and will be posting results using ETF, hopefully once my USB sound card gets here.

[ted_b]

Thanks.  Yes, regarding the subs with the bass traps, it helps a lot, especially the lower midbass bloat.  Strill not sure the older Sunfire subs are right for me, though.  

As far as diffusion, you are spot on.  I currently have that Roomlens I put in the center, which helps more than I thought it would (and I move it, of course, for movies..... ).  BUT, my wife and I just redid our master bath and bedroom area, and the woman helping us with the curtains, etc has ordered me some black fairly-reflective (ie. not thick warm absorptive) poly curtains for the front wall.  They will be pleated and will diffuse nicely.  In the meantime I literally hang up some polyester bedsheets, etc in a pleated fashion (gathered them onto those hangers with the large pressure clips).  I hang them carefully on the projector screen mounting frame.  Does wonders to the soundstage and image.

First reflection sidewall points are treated about as well as I need right now; the RM/X's don't present too wide of a reflection for me (not sure what will happen after the CDWG's though).  My coffee table was a problem until I threw a spare slab of sonex on it for listening sessions.  It's nice to have my own dedicated room...I couldn't possibly get away with this stuff in a multi-use room.  

[tdangelo]

Thanks for all the tips!!  I d/l'd Visio and here is my drawing.




So,  I have my VSA VR4-JR's 40" from the rear wall and 24" from the side(measured from the woofers) - my rack is about 24" tall and 43" wide.  I sit about 34-36" from the rear wall at the ears.  I'm wondering if this is an ideal setup in my room?  The speakers are pointing directly at my ears.  I'm just looking for suggestions on making it better.  It sounds pretty good now but I'm certainly not an expert on acoustics. I'm measuring about 12db peaks at around 45hz and 9db dips at around 100 with my Tact RCS - all tamed with the Tact.  The room height is 9'.  Any suggestions appreciated!!

Thanks

Tony D.

[ScottMayo]

So,  I have my VSA VR4-JR's 40" from the rear wall and 24" from the side(measured from the woofers) - my rack is about 24" tall and 43" wide.  I sit about 34-36" from the rear wall at the ears.  I'm wondering if this is an ideal setup in my room?  The speakers are pointing directly at my ears.  I'm just looking for suggestions on making it better.  It sounds pretty good now but I'm certainly not an expert at acoustics.

It doesn't look bad. I'm not going to work up an analysis (at least not for free ) but you might want to move the chair forward a little, and experiment with not pointing the speakers dead on to your ears. If you need to sit "right in the beams" to get enough HF, that means the room is overdamped, but it doesn't look like it should be.

The column bass traps don't look like they do much where they are, except possibly contribute a little diffusion a bit too close to the listener position. You might want to try the front corners...

[samplesj]

It doesn't look bad. I'm not going to work up an analysis (at least not for free ) but you might want to move the chair forward a little, and experiment with not pointing the speakers dead on to your ears. If you need to sit "right in the beams" to get enough HF, that means the room is overdamped, but it doesn't look like it should be.

The column bass traps don't look like they do much where they are, except possibly contribute a little diffusion a bit too close to the listener position. You might want to try the front corners...

Do you ever stop with the sales pitch?  Why don't you share with everyone what exactly makes you qualified in the first place?

Jeremy

[matix]

As far as diffusion, you are spot on.  I currently have that Roomlens I put in the center, which helps more than I thought it would (and I move it, of course, for movies..... ).  BUT, my wife and I just redid our master bath and bedroom area, and the woman helping us with the curtains, etc has ordered me some black fairly-refle ...

Sorry for noob question. Why would one want diffusion on the front wall?  I normally see people hanging a piece of carpet for absoprtion.  I have also a fiexed projector screen in front of me, and was thinking of putting Ecophon tiles or foam behind it (when my wife will not be in!),  for absorption.  Was told that the projector screen will let most of the sound through and not absorb. The pleated curtain idea seems to have a high WAF.  Mind sharing a pic. when it is done?  

[ted_b]

Will do (sharing the pic when done).  Diffusion is the best way to break up reflective sound while minimizing or eliminating any accidental frequency absorption.  This assumes a "lively" acoustic environment; I used to have Sonex on the front wall all around the screen and my soundstage and imaging was squashed by it (and I lived with it that way for quite a few years).  LEDE, I thought, but it sucked...lieterally.  When I tore it down it opened up the front stage things came to life, but the reflectivity of the bare live stage is unwanted.  Diffusion is the answer, and medium weight polyester curtains do the trick, especially with many pleats.  The same is true for the back wall; I have cd's, albums and the like, but stagger them randomly so as to create a diffuse wall.

[ScottMayo]

Do you ever stop with the sales pitch?

1) I'm in business. What are you in, other than a bad mood?
2) Free advice is not quite the same as a sales pitch. The writer said "any suggestions appreciated" and he posted his room specifically for comments. So I gave some. Free. Which is more than some people in this business will do.

  Why don't you share with everyone what exactly makes you qualified in the first place?

Answered in a PM; I decline to match your tone in a public post. Merry Christmas, friend. (If anyone else wants to know, pm me and I'll give the same details in a less annoyed fashion.)

[tdangelo]

thanks for the advice Scott.  I had the speakers pointed more forward but it sounds better the way they are.  I guess what I really wanted opinons on is how in the world can the Cardas method work in such a small room?   According to his calculator my speakers should be 5.36 feet from the front wall and 3.31 from the side - that puts the speakers like 5 feet apart and if I have my chair off the back wall I would be super close to the speakers - seems kinda weird to me.  The Rives calculator puts the 30" from the back and 24" from the side.  Hmmm..  One other question - do I really need the 4x8x2" panels behind the speakers?  I know I could just move them and see how it sounds but  I really would like to get natural light back in the room by removing the huge panel in front of the window (and the other one of course)...

Thanks
Tony

[ScottMayo]

I guess what I really wanted opinons on is how in the world can the Cardas method work in such a small room?   According to his calculator my speakers should be 5.36 feet from the front wall and 3.31 from the side - that puts the speakers like 5 feet apart and if I have my chair off the back wall I would be super close to the speakers - seems kinda weird to me.

Cadras is for nearfield listening. He doesn't *say* that in his writeup, but with the speakers practically in the middle of the room (for a typical room), it leaves you with very little choice: you end up with speakers in your lap. If you have a long, skinny room, you can use the method without resorting to monitors and nearfield, but in my experience that's not so common. I know people have gotten good results with it, but I'm not a fan. It does simplify some nodal problems but I don't like the way his approach ignores the other room dimensions. And for most people it's just not practical.

I'd start the speakers 3' from the back wall and 2' from the side - more or less the Rives suggestion - and then fuss them around a little.

Absorption on the front wall: it depends on what you're after. In a larger room I like diffusion behind a speaker and a lot of absorption on side walls. In a smaller room, diffusion gets trickier and less effective and I mix in more absorption. If you pull your front absorption down, you will get a more live sound - that can be bad or it can be ok - and there will be a little loss of imaging. It might be worth it to get light in the room. I'd do the experiment, personally - who wants to sit in a dark room? Put them on the opposite wall if there's room.

[samplesj]

Ok, lets clarify a few things

1) I'm in business. What are you in, other than a bad mood?

I do not work in the audio field in any way shape of form.  My normal day job is much the same as yours in software architecture/design/development.  Just as a clarification this is still a side job for you right?

2) Free advice is not quite the same as a sales pitch. The writer said "any suggestions appreciated" and he posted his room specifically for comments. So I gave some. Free. Which is more than some people in this business will do.

This isn't exactly true.  You DID offer more services for an additional charge.  I notice you didn't include my quote of your original comment in your reply, but we'll pretend it was an oversight because of how the forum handles nested quotes.

I'm not going to work up an analysis (at least not for free icon_smile.gif)

This one wasn't as blunt as your comment on Thursday ["I can draw up a plan for you, but I charge. See my website for details." (in this thread)].

As I have already pointed out to you once before this is NOT a commercial forum.   I'm just an ordinary user like you so there is nothing relevant about that except it shows you did previously know you weren't supposed to be selling here.  I thought this site was about sharing what we knew and had learned.  If I wanted commercial advice there are plenty of places to get that.

Answered in a PM; I decline to match your tone in a public post. Merry Christmas, friend. (If anyone else wants to know, pm me and I'll give the same details in a less annoyed fashion.)

This was an inventive way to pass out information that wouldn't have to withstand scuitiny.  By passing it directly to potential customers you can play a little fast and looser with the comments.

Now lets talk about those points you made.
1: I wasn't aware that spending $x on gear made you an acoustic expert.    I guess that makes you 7x the expert as me since I've only spent 1/7th of your total (although I'm not including the cost of my dedicated room because all of the work was done by myself or a former odd jobs helper very cheaply).  

I guess you were trying to make the point that your "reference" system makes you able to hear changes in treatment, but haven't you yourself on other threads said we shouldn't trust our ears.  I'm assuming you've got measurement equipment (at least a calibrated mic and ETF).  You do at least have that much right?  If you've got good measurement equipment then why does the "quality" of your system matter?  With good measurement equipment you should be able to compare a plain room to a treated one and get just the measurement delta of the treatment.

2: "Hand built devices"  I'd like you to clarify this.  In your room construction thread (here) you talked about hiring Rives to do an analysis.  So are these devices of your own design or did you just forget to mention that you were following their plan.

Of course I'm not a party to either side of the contract between you and them, but I even wonder if you aren't pushing your luck a little offering acoustic consulting so quickly after hiring them.

3: I'm assuming your comment about your "affable and warm personality" was tounge-in-cheek since you just recently had to be given a time out from the administration because you were being so "friendly"

[ScottMayo]

Rob, I'm not especially interested in samplesj's opinion. But you're facilitator here, and if you have any issue with the fact that I've mentioned my services here, could you drop me a pm, and we'll sort it out?

Other people's opinions also welcome. From the thank you notes I was getting, I thought I was, on balance, making people happier than samplesj seems to be.

One comment to samplesj - yes, I still earn my bread as a software engineer. I have for about 25 years, and I'm good at it. However, like a lot of people, I've seen the handwriting on the wall. Your software job is going to India, Russia or Israel, sooner or later. Mine isn't (I work in Defense now, and my work doesn't easily change countries), but the sucking sound from overseas is putting wage pressure on jobs in the entire industry, even my corner of it. It's no longer the wonderful gig it used to be and it's going to get much worse. So I'm looking at other options, for the future. And since my passion is audio, my plan is to build up this new little business of mine, and perhaps support my family with it someday, though I expect it's going to take a few years to get to that point. It would be nice if I could do it full time now, because I love it. I hope that day comes.

You aren't helping, and since you aren't an annoyed customer (I have none of those - they are all very happy with my work), I'd appreciate it if in future you took your complaints to me or Rob privately, and we could sort things out that way. I'm trying to lose the whole "attack dog" image and you are tempting me back into old ways. It's Christmastime, let's try a little peace, ok? Much appreciated, thanks.

[ted_b]

Scott,
I thought your response was absolutely fine.  You didn't flaunt any service or necessarily even mention your job overtly.  Geez, what is the deal here?  On other forums in this Circle speaker dealers, not necessarily associated with the mfg forum leader,  mention their business quite a bit, and I am also not insulted by that either.  Just don't flaunt it or provide $$ details.  Your use of PM was proper and justified.

Everybody, take a deep cleansing breath, get personal issues onto PM's and let's get this thread back on topic.

I've not had a lot of success with the Cardas numbers.  It's too nearfield for my tatse.  I'm not good at this, but looking at the room diagram I would say to test with the listening position in a few more slightly forward positions, but not at 50 or 75% of room length, of course..  Also, have you put these room specs into any mode calculator?

This is a good one....I'm providing the link to the original article...the downloadable Excel file is in the article, along with explanations
http://www.guidetohometheater.com/news/10388/