[Vtech2000]

"The best solder is no solder".  However, in the real world, often times we must make an electrical connection by means of soldering.  Logic would dictate, the more electrically conductive the solder, the better it is - pointing to solders containing silver, the most conductive of all metals.  I use a very special proprietary silver solder, it sounds wonderful and I am very pleased with it.  But I would like to know in your experience what available solders render the best results for use in circuits carrying low-level music signals (analog and digital)?

[Davey]

I like the "sound" my wallet makes when it closes with considerably more money than it would have if I'd bought silver solder.

2% silver bearing solder really isn't necessary in normal connections we might see in audio cables, circuit boards, etc.  An excellent solder joint is more about preparation and good soldering technique vice the type of solder used.

A standard eutectic 63/37 RMA solder like Kester 285 is excellent for just about everything.

Cheers,

Davey.

[JoshK]

I have no opinion on this matter.
Davey, What would "good preparation and technique" entail for you?

[StevenACNJ]

Here is a link to a large current thread on this subject @ the cable asylum forum

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/cables/messages/115165.html


I prefer Wonder solder myself.

[Vtech2000]

Excellent replies!  Let's keep this subject going here...

[ctviggen]

Ok, now he built four digital interconnects with four different solders. You couldn't put this on an oscilloscope and just test them instead of having people to listen to them?  I have to say that the former is more valid than the latter.

[kenk]

" I use a very special proprietary silver solder, it sounds wonderful and I am very pleased with it.  But I would like to know in your experience what available solders render the best results for use in circuits carrying low-level music signals (analog and digital)?

I beleive any normal solder will do and I bet 99.9999% of the people can hear the diff between regular and silver solder.   JMHO.

[Vtech2000]

Respectfully, that would take the subject of this thread - which solder SOUNDS the best - on a detour.  The measurement "device", if you will, for our purposes is the human sense of hearing.

[ctviggen]

I have to throw the BS flag on this one.  If you solder two DIGITAL interconnects (constructed in the exact same manner) with two different solders and you get no difference on an oscilloscope, then how on Earth will there be a difference in "sound"?  Moreover, how can solder on a digital interconnect make one sound "bright" relative to another?  Is the signal getting distorted enough that bits are being dropped?  Remember, this is a DIGITAL interconnect -- you either get a one or a zero.  Tell me under what theory a digital interconnect can be affected by solder, as I can't think of any mechanism that would cause such a wonder.  The only thing I can think of is a change in impedance due to the properties of the solder, but that change would be absolutely miniscule.  

It's ideas like this that make me wish I had an oscilloscope (I plan on buying one of these) and spectrum analyzer (20k for a good one is way more than I can spend) along with the time and money to test out these ideas, as I think they're idiotic.  YMMV.

[Davey]

Actually, since the premise for the original post was subjective "testing."  I don't believe the whole thread is even on topic for this "Circle."  However, Paul is the man determining those things.  

Cheers,

Davey.

Respectfully, that would take the subject of this thread - which solder SOUNDS the best - on a detour.  The measurement "device", if you will, for our purposes is the human sense of hearing.

[Vtech2000]

...please...let's not make this into a subjective vs. objective debate...we already know where that takes us...

[Occam]

Actually, since the premise for the original post was subjective "testing."  I don't believe the whole thread is even on topic for this "Circle."  However, Paul is the man determining those things.  

Cheers,

Davey.

Davey - You've a valid point, but from my perspective, I welcome this discussion, and feel it the appropriate forum. I'm am an objectivist to the core, but sadly have to acknowledge that measurements are often inadequate to identify subjectively identifiable characteristecs and differereces between things such as cable, solder, powercords, etc.... I'll not dispute Dan's inevitable argument that such differences may be due to impedance mismatches and grounding issues, but within this context of things such as they are, the discussion is 'valid'.
Nor am I willing to allow any discussion of DBT testing. I'm not saying its not a valid area for discussion, but it inevitably degenerates, and I'm quite able to antagonize by myself, at will  

I find myself in the position of accepting the fact that different capacitors 'accross the line' to have profound, identifiable effect on subjective perceptions, and they're not in the powersupply proper, let alone in the signal path. I'm not able to come up with itentifiable metrics which are sufficiently orthogonal to my liking to characterize efficacy, so ears is the best I've got.

And the first person who pipes in 'If you'll spend $$$, I've got a bridge to sell you....", is banned from the Lab Forum. It is simply a specious argument that belittles others.

That being said, I use Kester 44, eutectic 37/63 or with 2% silver. A cold solder joint sucks regardless of composistion and I'm clumsy and old. I'd like to try the Johnson 423, as well as the some of the lead less compositions (especially of interest due to the Rhoes lead free mandate).

[Watson]

I've tried various types of solder and haven't been able to discern any audible differences between them.  There is a significant difference in workability though.  My favorite high-end solder is Cardas Quadeutectic, simply because it flows so well.  If you want some silver content, I can highly recommend it.  Most silver bearing solders have a higher melting point and are a pain to work with.  That said, unless you're obsessive, standard Kester solder is just as good sounding and a lot cheaper.

[JoshK]

I absolutely agree with you Watson.  I use Cardas and other nice solders because they are easy to work with, not because I think they sound better.

[PSP]

Soldering with Cardas, because it melts at such a low temperature, puts less stress on thermally sensitive capacitors and semiconductors.  Cardas solder joints are also typically shiny and bright.... this makes it easier to spot bad solder joints.

I don't believe that you can hear solder, but--by the above argument--I think a system soldered with Cardas just might sound better than one soldered with something else.

Peter

[Davey]

Paul,

Yes, you make an even more valid point.
I'm an objectivist to the core (core, I like that..I didn't catch your pun initially) also, but when you delve into the subjective aspects of solder you're really on a slippery slope.  How in the heck does a person even "listen" for differences in solder?  I guess you'd have to build two identical circuit boards, or two preamplifiers, or two whatevers and then......oh my gosh....double-blind test them.    Is the very small amount of silver solder used in a set of highly expensive interconnect cables enough to allow isolation of differences?  I doubt it.  

It's just an exercise in futility IMHO, and anyone who says he can identify an audible change in the qualities of different solders raises my eyebrow immediately.  I think it's all marketing......nothing wrong with that though....this whole industry is filled with it.  

Many years ago I was an instructor for a MIL-STD-2000 solderfication class for the Navy.  That is my basis for advocating more attention to technique and preparation vice the type of solder used.  Back then and still today SN63 RMA solder is still the only recommended solder.

I noticed some of you fellas mentioned the Cardas solder.  I'm not sure where that is sourced, but I doubt it has any magical qualities.  It probably comes right off the standard manufacturing line of a large supplier like Kester or Multicore.  Cardas adds his name to the package and a huge markup and there you have it.
 
Cheers,

Davey.

[JoshK]

well, I mentioned cardas because it was easy to work with, if you know a similar solder, I am all ears.  I have used about 6 different kinds, 4 of which, never again.  

I'd still like you to expand upon good soldering techniques, because I'd love to learn them.  

[Davey]

Josh,

Soldering is one of those skills that most people will develop a style or knack for if they do it fairly often.  Individual techniques will vary a bit, but there are some general rules.

1.  Excellent light.
2.  Excellent vision.  Reading glasses or a big Lumilite magnifier third eye (or both in my case.)  
3.  Clean all parts thoroughly and try not to contaminate them just before soldering.
4.  Create as strong as possible mechanical and electrical connection before soldering.  This usually means bending over or "clinching" the lead of a component on the opposite side of a circuit board.  With point-to-point wiring loop around the post or connection point 180-270 degrees.  With many of the "cup" type connections on RCA jacks double back the wire if two diameters wil fit into the cup.  Orientate those at about thirty degrees when soldering so you won't create a possible void in the solder.
5.  When soldering use as big a tip as possible.  (More heat reserve available to transfer into the connection quickly.)  I don't like conical tips that narrow to a point.  I much prefer elliptical (or squashed) tips.  I always use a 700 degree tip or setting.
6.  Apply the iron (tip cleaned with wet sponge) so both portions of the connection are being heated.  Flip the work around and/or reposition your arms/hands if you have to.
7.  Feed solder into the connection until the amount is "about right."  Most folks tend to apply too much.  The shape of the lead(s) should still be visible inside the fillet created.  I like to use smaller solder .020 and feed it more quickly, but some folks do extremely well with larger types.
8.  If steps 6 and 7 take more than about two seconds you need to improve your technique.  Obviously, larger connections tend to increase this "dwell" time a bit.
9.  The result should be very shiny and smooth and the edges should feather out very evenly.

You kind of get a "feel" for it after awhile.

Cheers,

Davey.

[markmaloof]

I'm a fan of Cardas, it flows the best (and has the best shine) of any solder I have used up to this point.  Sure, I'll bet George Cardas gets it from someplace like Kester, but the thing is that he knows what to get (unless it is made esp. for his company), so since I don't know what that make of solder is, my only choice was to buy a pound roll of it (probably enough to last me a lifetime, to be honest.)  I'm happy with it.  I did have pretty decent luck with the old standby Kester "44", still have most of a one pound spool of that (and have given some out to friends), but I still find the Cardas melts and flows a little better.  Also tried out small containers of Kester's silver solder (not bad), and Ron Welborne's silver solder (works ok, but gets a bit too smokey.)  Again, the Cardas has still been my favorite, I would recomend it to anybody.

[bluesky]

I too, am a Cardas man, and for the same reasons as others have stated.  It is a joy to work with.

Recently I bought a cheap headphone kit to build for my son's guitar practice.  I thought I might as well use the small amout of solder that came with the kit.  Well after two resistors I threw it out and went back to the Cardas solder.  It flowed so much more smoothly and this resulted in a better connection.

A good connection will, of course, sound better.  The actual composition of the solder is not as important as creating a good solder joint and for this the Cardas solder has been the best I have tried so far.

The issue of expense is not a big deal for me as it is minor compared to the costs of component upgrades like capacitors and boutique resistors etc!

Cheers

Bluesky