DVD/CD Transport suggestions

Carlman · « **on:** 24 Apr 2003, 04:00 pm »

I have 2 transports currently I can use to send a signal to an external DAC. (A Museatex) I'm only concerned with 2-channel audio reproduction.

I have an Arcam Alpha 8 and a Pioneer DVD model 444. I bought the DVD player as a 'good for the money' DVD player. Not a serious audiophile piece. However, I keep reading how they can be modified to be great transports.

The CD player is used, at least a few years old but, in good condition and no problems. It was about $1000 new. The DVD player I bought new and was about $350... and is less than 2 years old with limited use.

How much difference in sound quality can this kind of transport switch make? If I were to get the Pioneer modified/improved would it always be a better source than the Arcam? I could upgrade the Arcam with a new clock but, I just don't know if there would be any difference.

I've heard the difference in various transports in the past but, I didn't know much about DVD players as transports. Just looking for experience and advice.

Thanks,
Carl

Hantra · « **Reply #1 on:** 24 Apr 2003, 04:39 pm »

Carl:

I use a DVD player as a transport, and it is the best transport I have had in my system. With that said, how close is the Pioneer to the Arcam now as a transport? I have always liked the Arcam Alpha series. They use modded Sony transports in those, and I am sure you could do similar tweaks to that vs. the Pioneer. Not sure which would be better to do, but the DVP-7700S I have is amazing. I didn't know what my DAC would do until I got that, and I switched from an Audio Refinement.

On a side note, I heard a fantastic transport/DAC combo last night. The Northstar 192 is sweet. I'd love to try the transport, but I am not sure they sell it seperately. They may just offer it with their 192 DAC. Regardless, it was nice, and if I could afford it, I'd shoot it out with my current DAC/transport combo.

B

Carlman · « **Reply #2 on:** 24 Apr 2003, 05:36 pm »

It seems obvious I should compare the transports as they are now...
I just haven't had the ambition yet. The DVD player is tightly wedged into an entertainment system with a bunch of other gear. Also, I'd need to get a 1 meter optical cable to connect from DVD to DAC. Then I can do A/B comparisons. I know the cable would be different but, that would be the case anyway. I'd like to try optical cable.

I can't spend much/any more money on hifi for a little while. Gas grills, new brakes, anniversary, etc. So, just trying to get ideas for cheap fun. (i.e. Northstar is out of the question at the moment but I'll try it down the road)

I hope to experiment soon.

-C

Hantra · « **Reply #3 on:** 24 Apr 2003, 06:55 pm »

Heh! I just got me a new grill too, and I am enjoying it. .

Remember though that a low-end optical cable will many times better an average coax until you spend a few bucks.

Bring that amp up here!!!

B

bluesky · « **Reply #4 on:** 24 Apr 2003, 11:25 pm »

Hi guys,

I just thought I would add what I am thinking of doing. Being rather pressed for money (I rely on a pension) my option is to go with a Marantz CD4000. It is used as a basis for the Ah! Tjoebe product because it has a good transport, apparently the same used in much higher product lines.

When I do get some money my options, for me at least, are to get an Aksa Dac, Scott Nixon or even the Ah! Tjoebe stuff in that order of preference.

At the moment I have borrowed a very old Pioneer Cd player from my Dad, but I have heard that the transports in these older players were sometimes superior to the newer ones.

Cheers,

Bluesky
Brisbane, Australia

Carlman · « **Reply #5 on:** 25 Apr 2003, 06:44 pm »

I'm waiting on a toslink cable to arrive to do a comparison of the 2 transports... while I was waiting, I got to thinking... uh-oh...

Can you retrofit an optical output to a CD player that only has a coax output? Is there any directions/instructions anyone has seen online?

I think the concept is the same, just the delivery method that differs. I have an optical output on my little JVC micro system, my DVD player, but not on my CD player. It's clearly not expensive. I'd like to hear the differences of the 2 types of cabling methods.

Anyone done this?

Also curious if anyone believes this: (source: http://www.precisionlaserdisc.com/digital-whatisit.html)
"What we offer is an upgrade "kit" to make the digital audio data available via a coaxial RCA connection (BNC optional). We strongly prefer coaxial for a few different reasons. Coaxial requires the drilling of a "round" hole in the player's back panel to mount the RCA/BNC jack. TOSLink would require a "square" hole which would add greatly to the complexity of the install. Also, coaxial is considered to be of higher quality than TOSLink. TOSLink utilizes an optical connection which you would think would be better, but being based on multi-mode plastic optical cable it is prone to jitter (the timing of the digital to analog conversion becomes incorrect). The electrical coaxial digital interface is considered to be higher in quality than TOSLink since the amount of jitter is generally much less. There are professional interfaces available that are of even higher quality, inquire via email if interested (Fiber ST, AES/EBU)."

tmd · « **Reply #6 on:** 25 Apr 2003, 10:19 pm »

I can tell you that multi mode fiber has problems with timing, as some of the flash of light gets to the other end faster that the rest. The modes travel at different speeds down the fiber. Having said that, I can't see how it would make a difference over a very short run like a meter or two.

Carlman · « **Reply #7 on:** 29 Apr 2003, 12:42 pm »

I received my Toslink cable yesterday and got a chance to hook it up. I got 1M of DHLabs SilverSonic cable. I've never used optical cable but, so far, I think it's pretty neat.

tmd, I agree there shouldn't be a problem but, I needed to prove it. And last night I did, to myself, anyway.

I was literally amazed at how well my cheap DVD player and the cable worked together. The sound was very smooth, articulate, and natural. swtiching the same CD from transport to transport revealed an edgier midrange on the Arcam. My wife and I listened and listened to try and determine which we preferred more. Some songs sounded better on the Arcam, others on the DVD.

Overall I preferred the DVD player. Maybe I need a better digital cable on the Arcam but, it was if I could hear less digitizing on the DVD.

Interesting experiment, I had no idea it would be that good.

-Carl

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #8 on:** 1 May 2003, 02:13 am »

Carlman,

Got the DVPS-7700 and it is darn near excellent - very happy with it coupled with an MSB Gold LInk III DAC, Power Base. My S7700 been modded at 192K output from MSB.

Before it got modified I used 96 and 132K upsampling on DAC with good digital cable - LAT International.

Then or now it sounded great...basically telling me no matter how good or advanced the cabling, output, or DAC is, a good trasnport helps a great deal. At like $300 gently used these days, the S7700 is a fine deal.

I think Marbles uses one too, now, unless he moved on to something since.

Marbles · « **Reply #9 on:** 1 May 2003, 03:00 am »

I still use one and am very pleased with it. Mine was modded by Dan Wright W/level 2 and Bybees and then it went to Steve at Empirical Audio for more mods.

It doesn't always synch the first time with my Mensa DIO, but it sounds so damn good I don't think I'll part with it anytime soon.

beat · « **Reply #10 on:** 13 Jun 2003, 03:18 am »

I had to send my jolida in for service and was bummed that I had no cd player. I quickly realized I could utilize my dvd player. It's a philips dvd751. I played a few discs through it and was kinda bummed. Today I put some better interconnects on it and took the cover off and lined it with this rubber and cork flooring stuff I have....dang, it is a world of difference. It is still bright by my tastes, but it will definitely suffice. One question though, if I run the optical output (which I never have tried) will it utilize the onboard dac in my amp?

byteme · « **Reply #11 on:** 13 Jun 2003, 12:22 pm »

I'm also using a DVP-S7700. Got it for $215 shipped from ebay in great condition. I took the cover off and lined it with damping material before I ever used it. This thing really digs into the disc to pull everything off of them. Really like it. It was better than my McCormack SST-1 and netted me $250 once I sold that!

Carlman · « **Reply #12 on:** 13 Jun 2003, 02:54 pm »

I appreciate the suggestion and I've heard much good about the 7700.... But, I've been thoroughly dissappointed with Sony products for the past 6 or 7 years so, that player wasn't an option for me. (Long story)

I have bought a Pioneer 656a and sent it to Dan W for level 1 mods and a bybee filter on the digital out. I've been very impressed with the Pioneer DVD player I have now (DV-444) so, if the 656 with mods is an improvement, I'll be very happy. If it's not, it'll still be good. If it sounds worse, I'll sell it to all the people that believe this is the answer and try something else.

subhuman · « **Reply #13 on:** 7 Jul 2003, 07:44 pm »

Carlman.. how'd that turn out? At this point, it looks like the Pioneer 563SA sort of replaces the 656A and adds SACD too... $179 for the 563SA... curious if the 656A does indeed share the same transport as the 563SA it might be interesting for those looking to dip their toes in these new formats...

Carlman · « **Reply #14 on:** 9 Jul 2003, 01:34 pm »

Quote from: subhuman

Carlman.. how'd that turn out? At this point, it looks like the Pioneer 563SA sort of replaces the 656A and adds SACD too... $179 for the 563SA... curious if the 656A does indeed share the same transport as the 563SA it might be interesting for those looking to dip their toes in these new formats...

I got the player back the afternoon before going out of town for the 4th weekend. Work has been really time-consuming as well. Last night was the first I got to listen to it in a while. I've had it on and repeating a whole disk since I got it back... so, it's good and warm... playing for 100 hours or so non-stop.

The sound quality is definitely improved. Specifically, details get picked up that I didn't hear before and the rendering of sounds seems a little more real. I haven't had time to really compare it to my unmodified DV-444 and I'm using a really cheap video cable as my digital cable. (The black ones that were included with the DVD player) Also, I'm still using really cheap ($5 total) speaker cable. All of my cable will be changed this week to Audience Conductor. I'll do comparisons with the new cables.

The only downside isn't Dan's fault..... more of a DVD player fault. This player and all other DVD players I've used as a transport have clicking noises when first playing a CD. When I sent this player off, there was a click when you open the drawer, and a click when it started playing. Now, there's 2 clicks just before it plays the CD. It's a loud, staticky click. I'm used to it because all players I've had did this but, I sure would like it if it didn't. I had my fingers crossed it would magically go away with the mods but, it didn't.

I'm very happy with this at the moment... can't wait for new cables which should be here today or tomorrow.... Full review later....

BikeWNC · « **Reply #15 on:** 9 Jul 2003, 05:11 pm »

Carl,

My Modwright Pioneer DV440 transport does not have the clicks you describe. Perhaps it's a problem from somewhere else in the chain? I really can't help you with the problem but to say my player doesn't have those clicks.

Andy

Psychicanimal · « **Reply #16 on:** 9 Jul 2003, 09:44 pm »

Once you live for a week with a belt driven transport you will not go back to direct drives...

JoshK · « **Reply #17 on:** 9 Jul 2003, 11:17 pm »

I have a question (not a slanted one but serious) about belt driven transports. Since the transport is such a sensitive mechanism and has to change speeds quite quickly how does a belt driven transport deal with this?

Carlman · « **Reply #18 on:** 10 Jul 2003, 05:49 pm »

Quote from: Tsunami

Carl,

My Modwright Pioneer DV440 transport does not have the clicks you describe. Perhaps it's a problem from somewhere else in the chain? I really can't help you with the problem but to say my player doesn't have those clicks.

Andy

Thanks for the datapoint, Andy.

It may be my DAC.... I'll ask the maker.

UPDATE: I asked the maker, John Wright and he quickly answered .... he said it was normal...

"This crackling you here is from the Data not recognising some of the
index codes from these new players. Rather than muting them it lets them through."

-Carl

Psychicanimal · « **Reply #19 on:** 11 Jul 2003, 12:54 am »

Quote from: JoshK

I have a question (not a slanted one but serious) about belt driven transports. Since the transport is such a sensitive mechanism and has to change speeds quite quickly how does a belt driven transport deal with this?

The CEC belt drive motor drives a ceramic flywheel which in turn drives the spindle. A 3/4 lb weight goes on top of the CD during playback. My transport is the same size as any CD player yet weighs a hefty 23 lbs.

Belt drive is the way for CDs...