SP-2 Upgrade Options and Availability?

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mv038856

SP-2 Upgrade Options and Availability?
« on: 22 Oct 2005, 09:57 am »
Hi James,

I have read in the forum about the upcoming SP-2 C-Series Pre/Pro. I was very excited to learn that Bryston will offer an upgrade path from previous Bryston pre/pros.

I currently own the legacy SP-1 PRO in silver. I expect an upgrade to the SP-2 with a black front panel to be somewhere in the price range of the original SP-1 to SP-1.7 upgrade with color change since both, the front an rear panel would have to be changed.  

Will such an SP-1 PRO to SP-2 PRO upgrade include the C-Series optics or will it include the 1.7 panels and the new digi board?

Can you at this point provide us with some more details about the upcoming upgrade options?

And of course, any reasonably reliable information about the availability would be highly appreciated.

BTW, if you could smuggle a picture of a C-Series SP-2 front out of the high security Bryston develpment laboratories... :wink:

Thanks in advance

Markus
aka mv038856

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SP-2 Upgrade Options and Availability?
« Reply #1 on: 22 Oct 2005, 01:04 pm »
Hi Markus,

Should have pictures in a week or so.
The upgrades from the SP1 or SP1.7 to the SP2 will retain the SP1.7 cosmetics.
Only new SP2's will have the C-Series look.

As for future upgrades we will probably look at offering some kind of EQ (oh god) and when and if the HDMI issues (DVD-HD - BluRay etc.)  get resolved we will have to deal with that issue. Also  we are open to input from customers like yourself as to options we may look at.

james

MattH

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SP-2 Upgrade Options and Availability?
« Reply #2 on: 22 Oct 2005, 01:49 pm »
Hi..

Will there be a optional extra if ppl wanted to have the faceplate replaced with the c series one?

Personally just having a processor which is future proved for the new formats puts a smile on my face...

Matt

James Tanner

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« Reply #3 on: 22 Oct 2005, 01:58 pm »
Hi Matt,

No I am sorry the cost would be excessive to try and replace the SP1.7 look with the new C-Series. Also we thought it would be better to maintain the C-Series look only on the SP2.

james

MattH

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SP-2 Upgrade Options and Availability?
« Reply #4 on: 22 Oct 2005, 02:27 pm »
No worries.. thought I would ask the question..

(Not that I know what the C series looks like anyhow yet !)

Any idea when you will officially be announcing the upgrades and pricing for domestic and international customers?

James Tanner

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SP-2 Upgrade Options and Availability?
« Reply #5 on: 22 Oct 2005, 02:29 pm »
Hi Matt,

Should be sometime in November 05.

james

MattH

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SP-2 Upgrade Options and Availability?
« Reply #6 on: 22 Oct 2005, 02:40 pm »
I look forward to it!  :D

Thanks

Matt

mv038856

SP-2 Upgrade Options and Availability?
« Reply #7 on: 22 Oct 2005, 07:10 pm »
Hi James,

thanks for the quick reply!

Quote
No I am sorry the cost would be excessive to try and replace the SP1.7 look with the new C-Series.


Would have been cool though to upgrade my SP-1 PRO to a "like new" SP-2 PRO...  :|  Anyway I expect to have a SP-2 inside the 1.7 case is still a major improvement over my "good old" SP-1...  :)

Quote
Should have pictures in a week or so.


Maybe once I see them, I will understand why it would be that complex to fit a SP-2 front onto an SP 1 or SP1.7.

Quote
As for future upgrades we will probably look at offering some kind of EQ (oh god)


I read about your reservations against EQs... I am using the Velodyne DD-15 subwoofer which has a TI DSP and, among other interesting features, an 8 Band parametric EQ and I am really overwhelmed how it improved bass performance in my acoustically challenging listening environment. I don't know if an EQ can do as much above 100Hz as it currently does for me under 100Hz where it flattened the valleys and peaks in a way that I felt like hearing the real thing for the first time! Then again, I think bass is a special area: The DD-15 e.g. has a tight servo-feedback-loop and a 1250 Watt RMS digital amp, something I wouldn't use for anthing else but the low frequency area at this stage...
Still, third parties like Audyssey do offer software solutions for TI DSPs that provide room correction capabilities that do not seem to be too bad. What I do like about the Velodyne approach is that they provide an integrated package, with the calibrated microfone, the internal test tone generator and the video out for an external control monitor. This way you really can use the parametric EQ to improve linearity as the user sees the effect of EQ changes instantly.

Quote
Should be sometime in November 05.


Sounds great! Fortunately, Sun Audio in Munich is quite competent in providing service here in Germany. I will contact them as soon as the announcement has been made.

Thanks again

Markus
aka mv038856

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« Reply #8 on: 22 Oct 2005, 08:49 pm »
The EQ thing keeps coming up and I guess if I have to capitulate I would say that below 100 Hz I guess I could live with it.

I attended a very good lecture at the recent AES Show in NY last week The lecturer was stating that EQing and room treatments cause more problems than they solve. The old issue of the reflected sound does not match the direct sound creates all kinds of tonal balance issues.
It was really quite enlightening.

james

thomaspf

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SP-2 Upgrade Options and Availability?
« Reply #9 on: 23 Oct 2005, 03:01 am »
Quote
The lecturer was stating that EQing and room treatments cause more problems than they solve. The old issue of the reflected sound does not match the direct sound creates all kinds of tonal balance issues.
It was really quite enlightening.


As you can probably know you can find another lecturer that will tell you right the opposite.

Any self respecting room eq package understands that the human ear has different perception of direct vs. reflected sound across the frequency range. You can't simply eq your room flat to a steady state signal but you need to perform time windowed measurements and decrease that window with higher frequencies since your brain filters out reflections at higher frequencies but not in the bass range. If a human speaker walks from a free standing position into the corner of a room the timbre of his voice seems to get darker. You do not get less reflections in higher frequencies but your brain filters these out.

In order to deal with room equalization you can start with simple steady state bass correction but higher up you need a shorter time window to accont for this issue.

Unless you have a well set up studio with accoustical treatment the right eq can have a huge positive impact to your sound. Alomost all rooms mess badly with the frequency response.

This goes back to my question whether you guys have been thinking about releasing some software to determine the best coefficients for your parametric equalization feature.

Cheers

    Thomas

thomaspf

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SP-2 Upgrade Options and Availability?
« Reply #10 on: 23 Oct 2005, 03:03 am »
Quote
The lecturer was stating that EQing and room treatments cause more problems than they solve. The old issue of the reflected sound does not match the direct sound creates all kinds of tonal balance issues.
It was really quite enlightening.


As you can probably know you can find another lecturer that will tell you right the opposite.

Any self respecting room eq package understands that the human ear has different perception of direct vs. reflected sound across the frequency range. You can't simply eq your room flat to a steady state signal. If a human speaker walks from a free standing position into the corner of a room the timbre of his voice seems to get darker. You do not get less reflections in higher frequencies but your brain filters these out.

In order to deal with room equalization you can start with simple steady state bass correction but higher up you need a shorter time window to accont for this issue.

Unless you have a well set up studio with accoustical treatment the right eq can have a huge positive impact to your sound. Alomost all rooms mess badly with the frequency response.

This goes back to my question whether you guys have been thinking about releasing some software to determine the best coefficients for your parametric equalization feature.

Cheers

    Thomas

Levi

SP-2 Upgrade Options and Availability?
« Reply #11 on: 23 Oct 2005, 03:27 am »
Quote from: James Tanner
The EQ thing keeps coming up and I guess if I have to capitulate I would say that below 100 Hz I guess I could live with it.

I attended a very good lecture at the recent AES Show in NY last week The lecturer was stating that EQing and room treatments cause more problems than they solve. The old issue of the reflected sound does not match the direct sound creates all kinds of tonal balance issues.
It was really quite enlightening.

james


It is good to know the upgrade from SP1.7 to SP2 will be out soon.  Can you summaries the features of the new SP2?  Will the upgrade include a dimmable display?

I agree with your view about EQing.  It is just not for me.  However, if you intend to include EQ it is extemely helpfull if it has memory presets.

MattH

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SP-2 Upgrade Options and Availability?
« Reply #12 on: 23 Oct 2005, 06:37 am »
Levi does your display not turn itself off then on the SP1.7 ?

One thing I did notice when I got my processor last weel was that the lcd display was blck with yellow text (unlike the standard lcd display I have seen in other pictures) and the the display turns itself off after a few seconds of remote inactivity..

Cheers

Matt

number6.mi

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SP-2/SP1.7 Features
« Reply #13 on: 23 Oct 2005, 10:50 am »
Can someone from Bryston clarify if and how the SP-2/SP-1.7 will improve upon DAC performance.  Specifically, will incoming digital signals be re-clocked (and how) and will there be any changes in how outgoing analogue signals are handled.

I think it is wise if only for competitive reasons to incorporate equalization and am glad to see that is now planned.  Will Bryston be able to include auto-calibration with this?

Another feature I have missed on the SP-1.7 is that it hasn't been possible to equalize the volume of digital sources so there is not a jump in volume when switching to bypass.  Are there plans to address this?

One other comment which I'm sure is wishful thinking is that while I do not miss the fact the SP-1.7 doesn't handle video switching which I think many consumers don't bother using, I have always thought it would be useful to have a video/tv monitor output for the only purpose of displaying the audio settings.

James Tanner

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« Reply #14 on: 23 Oct 2005, 01:37 pm »
Hi Thomas,

We have no plans to do software with room correction. We will leave that to others.


james

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« Reply #15 on: 23 Oct 2005, 01:40 pm »
Hi Levi,

Yes the display will have 2 levels of brightness.

james

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« Reply #16 on: 23 Oct 2005, 01:41 pm »
Hi Matt,

Yes the newer SP1.7's have a different display and it goes off after 10 seconds except in Bypass mode.

james

James Tanner

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Re: SP-2/SP1.7 Features
« Reply #17 on: 23 Oct 2005, 01:47 pm »
Quote from: number6.mi
Can someone from Bryston clarify if and how the SP-2/SP-1.7 will improve upon DAC performance.  Specifically, will incoming digital signals be re-clocked (and how) and will there be any changes in how outgoing analogue signals are handled.

I think it is wise if only for competitive reasons to incorporate equalization and am glad to see that is now planned.  Will Bryston be able to include auto-calibration with this?

Another feature I have missed on the SP-1.7 is that it hasn't been possible to equaliz ...


Hi,

We will continue to use the current Crystal 192/24 DAC's we use now. We have looked at many DAC's and these still sound the best. We will not be reclocking. We only do that with the DAC in the BP26 and the Integrateds. The analog output is not changing.

No plans on auto-calibration at this point.

The thing you have to understand about the Digital and Analog volume is that we do not use the DAC's to raise and lower volume in the analog mode. All others I have looked at do.  We feel than analog should remain analog - no DACs. So the volume control in analog goes through the same analog volume control as our BP26 preamp. We try to match the levels a best we can between the analog and digital volumes between about 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock but due to the different methods of handling digital vs analog volume a dead match is not possible.

I like the idea of the single video out - I will check with engineering on that but I expect it will not be do-able.

james

Adz523

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SP-2 Upgrade Options and Availability?
« Reply #18 on: 24 Oct 2005, 12:23 am »
James -

1. Are these still the slated menu of enhancements?  Any adds or deletes to this list?  

2.  Have you or any other beta testers noticed an enhancement in sonic quality from the more powerful chip, for example in surround performace?


New Features

·RS-232 Software Updates

·DSP Firmware Updates via SPDIF

·New TI Aureus Audio DSP Chip

·7 x greater Processing Power

·DTS 96/24 5.1 Surround Decoding

·Dolby 96/24 Two-Channel Surround PLIIX Decoding

·Four Independent Hi-Pass Subwoofer Crossover Points:Left/Right Front, Center, Left/Right Surrounds, Left/Right Backs

·7.1 Decoding from 2-Channel source in Dolby PLIIX Music & Film Modes

·7.1 Decoding from 2-Channel source in DTS NEO6 Music & Cinema Modes

·7.1 Surround Effects Decoding from 2-Channel sources

·96/24 Matrix Surround Modes in 5.1

·Dynamic Range Adjustment per Individual Input

·New faster Micro-controller Board

thomaspf

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SP-2 Upgrade Options and Availability?
« Reply #19 on: 24 Oct 2005, 03:33 am »
Hi James,

I did not think you would provide room correction but I thought you will support parametric equalization.

It would be great to provide some way to actually finding the right paramters for this equalizer. I took me weeks of toying around with various room response packages to get the response functions for my left and right speaker and then some extra time trying to pick the most effective filters given the fixed center frequencies of the parametric equalizer in the Behringer DEQ2496 that I am currently using.

If you are not planning on shipping a solution may be you can work with some partner company whose business this is.

Cheers

    Thomas