Power conditioner

thomaspf · « **on:** 18 Oct 2005, 04:52 pm »

The new power conditioners are online at the Bryston WEB site.

It looks like you will need special cabling to hook them up to both phases of your domestic power similar to you laundry dryer.

James any measurements on how much this will improve the sound. The web site is very sparse with information other than mentioning surge protection and a symmetric ground plane.

There is not a hint of how much these will cost either.

Cheers

Thomas

James Tanner · « **Reply #1 on:** 18 Oct 2005, 06:50 pm »

Hi Thomas,

We are planning on having 6 models available - the 1800 watt and the 2400 watt will be able to plug into your current wiring and the next 4 models will be designed to be wired directly to your hydro panel.

The power conditioners will provide your electronics with a very low impedance - low noise - and surge protected power supply. It essentially will isolate your electronics from the outside world.

Pricing in the US will be from $2500 for the 15 amp to $9000 for the 100 amp unit. These are industrial grade units.

james

Jason Nugent · « **Reply #2 on:** 18 Oct 2005, 07:08 pm »

James,

What's the timeframe for making these available?

Any recommendations for a system that will contain a 4BSST, a 9BSST, and an SP1.7, along with a few other components that don't pull any real load?

These have piqued my curiosity because I had a power surge in my home a few weeks ago due to a tree falling against a power line. Instead of severing the line, it just pulled the insulation off of it and sent 240V into my house for a period of 3 hours, before I got home from work. Thankfully, no audio components were plugged in. Traditional surge protectors did nothing in this situation, and most were cooked along with whatever was plugged into them. This incident has got me thinking about seriously protecting my Bryston gear, along with my projection system.

James Tanner · « **Reply #3 on:** 18 Oct 2005, 08:00 pm »

Hi Jason,

You would need a 4 or 5KW (40 amps) unit which would easily cover all your equipment. It would protect against a 240V connection.

james

NewBuyer · « **Reply #4 on:** 19 Oct 2005, 07:38 am »

Hi James Tanner,

I am confused. From the previous Bryston literature I understood that Bryston components (at least Bryston power amplifiers) did not need any power conditioning whatsoever. Is this correct?

James Tanner · « **Reply #5 on:** 20 Oct 2005, 03:03 pm »

Hi Newbuyer,

Bryston power amplifiers have very good noise rejection circuitry as part of their power supply design, but there are other issues that a good power line conditioner would solve.

The concern we had with a lot of power line conditioners out there was that many of them could restrict the current available to the amplifier. An amplifier can draw very high peak current, and wants to 'see' a very low impedance source from the power line.

Torus Conditioners are designed to provide 3 major benefits: 1. Very low source impedance for the amplifier, 2. protection from power surges using Series Mode Surge rejection rather than MOV's and 3. very low noise on the powerline due to rejection of noise sources on the power line (motors, lights etc.).

All electronic components will benefit from controlled power. Torus Powerline Conditioners essentially isolate your audio/video system from the negative influences of the outside world's power grid.

james

dan_lo · « **Reply #6 on:** 21 Oct 2005, 02:55 pm »

Questions for Bryston guys:

1. Have you notice measurable improvements in the output of your amplifier/ preamps when using these devices? if yes, what exactly is it?

2. I suspect these devices are very good, and do what they suppose to do. But who exactly do you target with these devices?
I mean - suppose someone has $6000-$8000 worth of electronics. Do you expect he will spend around $3000-$5000 on a power conditioner (good as it is)?
If you target proffessional studios it makes sense, but for the domestic market?

_andy_ · « **Reply #7 on:** 21 Oct 2005, 06:30 pm »

.......not a Bryston guy here, but i think there is a big gap between 6 to 8 grand worth of electronics and the 'pro market'. I suspect there are plenty of Bryston owners that have spent that amount alone on amps ( i'm not one of them)....now you have preamps, sources...maybe some expensive video gear.....now maybe the 2500.00US entry level for a 15amp circuit conditoner/surge isn't so bad.......they exist at that pricepoint already, but not backed by Bryston name.

brj · « **Reply #8 on:** 21 Oct 2005, 07:07 pm »

Quote from: _andy_

now maybe the 2500.00US entry level for a 15amp circuit conditoner/surge isn't so bad.......they exist at that pricepoint already, but not backed by Bryston name.

Bryston's warranty is a great selling point, to be sure, and their engineering and customer support have always been very solid. That said, there are some other very well reviewed series mode surge protector/line filters out there for 1/10th of the price. I'm looking forward to more details on the Bryston units to find out what makes theirs unique.

Edit: I should qualify my statement a bit to indicate that the units I'm thinking of are mostly non-limiting surge protection. They provide filtered power, but not balanced power, so there is some difference already.

James Tanner · « **Reply #9 on:** 21 Oct 2005, 09:38 pm »

Hi brj,

Can you name a few line conditioners that offer series mode rejection for me?

james

brj · « **Reply #10 on:** 21 Oct 2005, 10:30 pm »

Quote from: James Tanner

Can you name a few line conditioners that offer series mode rejection for me?

The line of products that I remember as the best overall offering came from BrickWall. They have a few different product lines, including an "audiophile" line, that has isolated outlets, extra shielding, etc.. As I said, their offerings do not provide balanced power, so the level of filtering isn't as extensive as I suspect Bryston's new offerings to be, but they do share your view of "no MOVS".

By the way, I'm impressed that you asked for examples. I intentionally didn't mention names initially, because I didn't think it appropriate to do so in your circle. I look forward to hearing your new offerings!

Edit: Corrected spelling errors

James Tanner · « **Reply #11 on:** 21 Oct 2005, 10:42 pm »

Thanks - I will check them out.

james

dan_lo · « **Reply #12 on:** 21 Oct 2005, 11:16 pm »

I hope my questions were not offensive to anyone.
Just to make things clear: my current amps are Brystons, and my next amps will probably be Brystons as well. I highly respect this company.

The first question was purely technical curiousity.
The second one is, well, pazzlement at the marketing strategy. I geuss Bryston does not want to release a product which does not have their full confidence, and is not willing to compromise at all on quality issues. The problem is that this level of quality cost quite a lot of money, especially compared to the prices of Bryston's electronics.

Again - if I offended anyone- I apologize.

James Tanner · « **Reply #13 on:** 21 Oct 2005, 11:27 pm »

HI Dan,

No offence here - the new line conditioners we are marketing were 3 years in the making. We researched it extensively but these are a cost no object approach and are certainly not aimed at the middle market price wise.

james

jethro · « **Reply #14 on:** 22 Oct 2005, 02:39 am »

James,

I was wondering if more than one power conditioner can be used at a time, or if this would negate some of their benefits ? I ask this because more than one power conditioner would allow one to upgrade and make it easier on the wallet.

Thanks.

James Tanner · « **Reply #15 on:** 22 Oct 2005, 12:43 pm »

HI Jethro,

There are 3 ways you can use these new conditioners.

1. The 15 amp and 20 amp versions just plug into the wall and use the existing power line. So you could certainly use these units in separate locations throughout the house.

2.The 40 amp to 100 amp units are meant to be wired directly to the power coming into the house. The unit is then placed in the appropriate room and all your gear runs off it.

3. The third way is to install the unit directly at the hydro panel on the wall in what they call a NEMA box. I do not have final pricing yet but I assume the NEMA box version will be less costly.

With the units wired (as in 2 or 3) directly to the hydro service coming into the house you can spit phase and use two 120 feeds to produce a 240 input to a center tapped transformer. That way you get a Balanced Power input which reduces noise substantially. Also the output does not require special GFCI's - (ground fault recepticals).

Another bonus of using the double input voltage (2x120) means double the input power for a given amperage. So in our 100 amp unit we only need 50 amps of input to the unit for a 100 amp output.

So I can see - especially in new construction - NEMA units installed at the hydro panel and therfore providing power conditioning and surge protection for the whole house or studio. I see the larger chassis versions 40-100 amp units being used in the same room as the equipment and the smaller 15 amp or 20 amp (plug into existing wall power) units being used with specific equipment that you want protection on.

james

Jason Nugent · « **Reply #16 on:** 24 Oct 2005, 12:28 pm »

Hey, James,

A few more questions from me. For the 40 amp version, which you previously recommended for my set up, you mentioned that this model would be wired directly into the panel. How is the connection made? Is it like my kitchen stove, where I have a 40 amp breaker in my panel, and a plug in my kitchen that the stove plugs into, or would the wire run directly from the panel into the conditioner with no plug?

Secondly, how long of a power cord is feasible for a 4B SST? I was thinking of putting my 4B SST at the front of my room so I can have short runs of speaker wire. The conditioner would be at the back fo the room, .near the equipment rack (and where my 9B SST is). Doing it that way would mean running a power cord from the front of my room to the back of my room, probably through my ceiling. It would be 35-40 feet long. Or would it be better to run a circuit from the conditioner (located at the back of the room) to a recepticle at the front of the room, and use the regular power cord? That method would work better for my projector, which has a non-removable power cord and needs a recepticle in the ceiling.

Are these units available for purchase now?

Thanks!

Jason

James Tanner · « **Reply #17 on:** 24 Oct 2005, 03:11 pm »

Hi Jason,

It would use a plug like your dryer or stove.

Good question on length of power cord - I will check with engineering on that one.

Not available for sale yet - should be available in early December.

james

James Tanner · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 Oct 2005, 04:05 pm »

The customer would be better off running more wire, 10 or 12 ga., inside the walls to where the amp is, and run a normal-length line cord to the amp.

cwr

Jason Nugent · « **Reply #19 on:** 4 Dec 2005, 11:27 pm »

Hey, James,

Seeing as how it is now "early December", have these units been made available at this time? Has any pricing been established for the 5400VA NEMA unit?

THanks!