[chipperman]

This isn't so far fetched as it may seem. I have a pair of 626's mounted 6 feet off the floor, 6 inches from the rear wall. with the ceiling sloping up towards the sitting position. They may be a LITTLE high, but not much. Sitting on the couch, they sound better than they did on 20" stands. At the 20" height, I have an LRC. When all are playing, it is a huge soundfield. (This is temporary;we are remodeling, and I am not going to leave them like that.) But I was surprised that the highs seem to casade over the room like a waterfall.

[Scottdazzle]

I've been listening for a week or so with the VMPS RM-30M's on some improvised stands. The "stands" are 2-4x8x16 cinder blocks per speaker laid on their sides with two 3/4" birch plywood boards cut to size on top of them. Total height is 5 1/2". 

What I'm hearing is a wider and deeper soundstage with tighter, less sluggish bass.  Not that the bass was sluggish before, but it didn't quite have the speed of the planar mids and ribbon tweeters.  The slight discontinuity between the dynamic woofers and the planar mids is now reduced.  The unwanted reinforcement in the bass is lessened because the extra distance between the speaker and the floor seems to decouple the woofers from the floor reinforcement.

The mids, either because the woofer-floor junction is better controlled or because they are better centered at ear level, are stronger than necessary.  I've dialed back the mids from 11:00 to 9:00 and gotten a good balance.  The tweeters are nearly a foot above ear level and seem to be balanced well as is. No adjustments there.

The upshot of all this is that I recommend any VMPS RM30 owners to go to your local hardware store and buy some cheap materials and give this a try.  As for me, I will probably pursue a permanent improvement with Timbernation maple amp platforms with either maple block feet or atop a  Salamander Synergy type frame. The inspiration for the latter is Joules' mighty nice homemade setup.

If anyone else is trying this besides John Casler and me, please tell us what you think.

[drphoto]

Since I switched from Maggies to Merlin monitors, I've found I prefer the floor as the sweet spot.  I'd agree w/ the observation of an improved soundstage, and heck, even my crappy Mirage sub sounds better....much 'punchier' and more cohesive w/ the monitors. (still haven't had time to build the baffles for the GR/Rythmik servo OB subs)

In my case, I think it's all because I'm getting less room interaction when I sit lower. I dunno if I'd get the same effect sitting on the sofa and raising the height of the speakers.

Sorry to horn in on a VMPS thread, not being an owner, but I thought it was an intersting topic, as I'd seen a similar effect. Am a fan of VMPS though...have been very impressed w/ the couple of models I've heard. (RM-40 & 626R)

[Scottdazzle]

These Salamander amp stands look like they'll work well with the RM-30's. They're 23" wide, 16" deep, and 3.75" tall.  I'll orient them so they'll be 23" deep and 16" wide.  If I've measured correctly, the speakers will fit perfectly inside the four protruding Allen nuts on top. 

I hope they are high enough off the floor: the blocks + boards I'm using now are about 5.5" high and that's a nice improvement over floor placement.   I ordered a pair in black from Audio Advisor.

[Russtafarian]

how 'bout this?



Based on this resurrected thread, I perched my RM30s on top of my DIY dipole subs a few weeks back and I really like what I'm hearing.  The subs raise the speakers by 12 inches.  I found some "dimple" vibration pads for heavy appliances (http://www.soundproofing.org/infopages/vibrationpads.htm) that do a great job decoupling the speakers from the subs.

Set up this way the speakers sounds bigger, more authoritative, and have even better midrange resolution than before.  The subs are now more time and phase aligned with the '30s so bass definition and impact improved.  Tied together and triamped using the DCX, the RM30's are now singing at a whole 'nuther level.

Russ

[doug s.]

while i do not have vmps rm30's, i can wouch for the effectiveness of raising similar sized speakers - i had my coincident victory's on ~10" stands, and it made them sound a lot better.



doug s.

[Scottdazzle]

These Salamander amp stands look like they'll work well with the RM-30's. They're 23" wide, 16" deep, and 3.75" tall.  I'll orient them so they'll be 23" deep and 16" wide.  If I've measured correctly, the speakers will fit perfectly inside the four protruding Allen nuts on top. 

I hope they are high enough off the floor: the blocks + boards I'm using now are about 5.5" high and that's a nice improvement over floor placement.   I ordered a pair in black from Audio Advisor.

The stands arrived and work as I hoped. The base of the speakers fit exactly in the space inside the four bolt tops that protrude from the top of the Salamander stands.  Anyone with RM30 speakers should consider this as a modest cost improvement.  Here's a photo.

[Hipper]

I remember this tweak when I had just bought my RM30Ms and didn't see the need to try as I was enjoying them so much, but thanks to Scott bringing this up again I thought I'd give it a go.

I have sonic treatment and listen in nearfield, about six feet from the speakers. Firstly, I slouched in my chair so that my ears were roughly in line with the middle Neo panel and heard some of the benifits, so I then placed the speakers about 8" off the ground on some books - not very steady but OK as a temporary measure.

I heard pretty much what has been described, namely louder midrange accompanied by greater seperation of instruments and voices, an increase in height of the soundstage and more from the tweeter. The bass didn't seem to be altered. However, I'm not sure what to make of it and whether I actually like this sound, at least not yet. My early impressions are that where before I had smooth harmonies and a complete sounding song, now it is more like an assembly of pieces. Also I get earache from the sound but I think this probably due to the Neo panels being too loud.

I have a Behringer DEQ 2496 which, along with a microphone, can take measurements. I therefore dialed in the flat response I got when I measured the speakers in their original position and played some pink noise to see what the readings now were at my ear position. Well, not really surprisingly, the increases were in the range 500Hz to 6.3KHz and varied between 5db and 10db with 1.25KHz and 4KHz showing no increases. There were no increases lower down or higher up. Of course I'm not saying these figures are spot on accurate but they do give a good general impression and confirm John's reasoning as to what is happening here (microphones do not have the benfit of millions of years of evolution of course so presumably that is why no increase detection in the higher frequencies).

Clearly I have more work to do, including perhaps adjusting the L pads as Scott has done.

[Scottdazzle]

Hipper, by all means adjust the mid controls. You will probably find that the octave to octave balance improves noticeably.  Aren't cheap tweaks fun?

[Hipper]

They can be fun but I also find them irritating.

You think you've got the best sound ever then someone comes along with a tweak and you feel you may not have the best afterall.

You try the tweak, which often involves considerable messing about, then you hear something which initially seems like an improvement, get excited, then have to ask 'is it really an improvement or just a change?' Because of the 'messing about' it's not so easy to A/B the tweak so you end up in a sort of limbo for a while whilst trying to adjust the tweak to a sound you like.

Ultimately I will have missed a week or two enjoying listening to music whilst I get the tweak to work properly or return to my previous set up.

This one seems to have possibilties though so I will persevere!

[Hipper]

Right, I continued to try and develop the sound to my liking by fiddling with the Behringer DEQ2496 Equaliser, but unfortunately I haven't yet managed to get a really satisfying sound, so I've returned the speakers and equaliser to my original settings with a view to making some sort of speaker stand.

I thought I'd make it from sheets of solid wood (pine) screwed together making six inches, then adding finite's cerabases (I have some of these already), making eight inches in total which would seem the optimum (where have I heard that before?).

Meanwhile I'm back listening to the previous set up and I find I'm enjoying it even more. It's like coming home again, except I seem to be hearing even more from my old favorites. What's going on? Have I aligned the speakers in some slightly different orientation - I don't think so. The Behringer is definitely using the same readings.

Could it be psychological? Have my ears and/or brain reacted to the unfamiliar sound I got from the Talboy experiment? Whatever it is, I'm again loving my music again. 

[John Casler]

Meanwhile I'm back listening to the previous set up and I find I'm enjoying it even more. It's like coming home again, except I seem to be hearing even more from my old favorites. What's going on? Have I aligned the speakers in some slightly different orientation - I don't think so. The Behringer is definitely using the same readings.

Could it be psychological? Have my ears and/or brain reacted to the unfamiliar sound I got from the Talboy experiment? Whatever it is, I'm again loving my music again. 

You know what they say, "variety is the SPICE of life".

[Hipper]

I've now moved my system into a bigger room which is about 1.7 times the previous room's volume, and after setting it up, including using a Behringer digital equalizer, I decided to have another go at John's Tallboy tweak.

I made some supports out of solid blocks of wood which raises the RM30Ms up by 17cm. The middle of the middle of the three neo panels is now level with my ears.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=4393

Still using the original Behringer measurements gave a soundstage that was raised so that it seemed I was at the front by the stage almost looking up someone's trouser leg - I should perhaps use this set up for female singers.

Anyway, after remeasuring with the Behringer I now get a much more lively sound. Well recorded music is good, particularly delicate music with harmonies. Unfortunately some less well recorded material, particularly louder stuff, is not so good: this can seem a bit messy at times.

Overall though, this time the pluses outweigh the negatives so far.

[Hipper]

I would just like to add that after a month or so of listening with the Tallboy tweak, I've found it a big improvement.

In particular percussion and general detail at those frequencies is more audible. It was there before but not so noticeable that I would listen for it. As a result I'm enjoying the nuances of this which I was previously, unknowingly, missing.

The other thing it seems to have done is increase separation. Tracks I always liked and found comfortable are now more open, less solid and more seperate parts. This aspect has taken more time to get used to but now I have and I like it.

I should remind you though that as I use a digital equalizer the setting up of this may have been a factor in these changes.