[MarkM]

DIY Cable's amps based on the Hypex modules seem like a good deal, compared to others asking price.

Any owner's of the new amps?  The UCD400 modules seem like good affordable watts.

Kevin are they set up as stereo amps or mono in one chasis?
(2 transformers, power supplies one chasis and of course 2 Hypex modules, or do they share the same power supply)

[Kevin P]

We can do either.   With just two channels in a chassis there is plenty of room for two seperate power supplies.   We can even do two seperate IEC inputs if you want two power cords.

[guest1632]

We can do either.   With just two channels in a chassis there is plenty of room for two seperate power supplies.   We can even do two seperate IEC inputs if you want two power cords.

Hi Kevin,

Not to sure how to frame this question, but, if you use only 1 transformer per supply and make the whole thing a truly monoblock with 2 channals in a box, versus just using one transofmer for both channels's supplies, any difference in sound?  And, what is the size of the case for a 2 channel amp? Thanks.

Ray

[MarkM]

I'm surprised no one has chimed in on these amps.  Of course DIY Cable has been offering them what-a coulple of months??  Didn't see any listing on DIY Cable website.

Ray, it looks like there is plenty of room in the chasis if you look at the picture of the 7 channel amp with dual trannies.  Chasis Measurements are somewhere on that page I think.

CIA mentions that in there opinion maximum performance is achieved via true mono, hence they do not offer stereo amp.  This is based on the same Hypex modules.  

So, if the digital amps are very efficient, current draw would seem to be minimal for a power supply.  Of course I know nothing about the Hypex load demand for a power supply so I will stop there.  

Really curious as to the sound vs say a CIA amp based on the same modules.  Looks like Kevin is interested in feedback as well.  He offered his amp for comparison with the Nuforce in one of the other circles somewhere.

I have a feeling it wont be long before these amps are all in the same rm.....

[guest1632]

I'm surprised no one has chimed in on these amps.  Of course DIY Cable has been offering them what-a coulple of months??  Didn't see any listing on DIY Cable website.

Ray, it looks like there is plenty of room in the chasis if you look at the picture of the 7 channel amp with dual trannies.  Chasis Measurements are somewhere on that page I think.

CIA mentions that in there opinion maximum performance is achieved via true mono, hence they do not offer stereo amp.  This is based on the same Hypex module ...

Hi Mark,

Well, It depends on how the power supply is set up/configured. The modules are independent of the supplies.

Ray

[Kevin P]

I'm surprised no one has chimed in on these amps.  Of course DIY Cable has been offering them what-a coulple of months??  ...

Hey.. we have only sold four amps so it's not like we have a lot of people to chime in.  


I think most people don't understand how small this market really is.   We don't sell thousands of amps, speakers or anything else.   I wish we did.   I'd actually be able to make a living.  

[Kevin P]

We can do either.   With just two channels in a chassis there is plenty of room for two seperate power supplies.   We can even do two seperate IEC inputs if you want two power cords.

Hi Kevin,

Not to sure how to frame this question, but, if you use only 1 transformer per supply and make the whole thing a truly monoblock with 2 channals in a box, versus just using one transofmer for both channels's supplies, any difference in sound?  And, what is the size of the case for a 2 channel amp? Thanks.

Ray

Sure... you can set up two supplies in one chassis.   You can even run two separate power cords into the chassis.   I'm working on a 2-channel next week that uses two supplies.   I'm waiting on UCD400AD modules for it and a few other parts so it's going to be several weeks until I have a listening evaluation for it.

The size of all our chassis:   12.5" x 3.5" x 16.75"

[Kevin P]

CIA mentions that in there opinion maximum performance is achieved via true mono, hence they do not offer stereo amp.  This is based on the same Hypex module ...

The question isn't which is theoretically better.   True dual mono supplies should be better assuming you have the same overall size power supply.   The question should be "Is there an audible difference?".  

The answer is simple if your selling something.   You tell people it sounds better because that is what they want to hear.   With the PSRR of the UCD modules I doubt there is much difference.   In fact, I've used two different amplifiers, one channel from each to drive a set of speakers and there was no audible difference that I could easily decern.   There may be a set of loudspeakers somewhere or some golden ear that can tell the difference but I couldn't with a simple A/B comparison.

I did hear a difference when passive bi-amping via a multichannel amp.   Once again, I'm not sure if it is due to the greater power or the fact that I'm bi-amping.    I'd just don't have the time to unravel every audio mystery that I'd like to.  

[Al Garay]

Better soundstaging and imaging are claimed to be the benefits for having power supplies for each channel.  The 5 channel UcD180 amp built by Kevin that I heard powered by single large toroid transformer had excellent soundstaging and imaging in comparison to my AKSAs 100 watt monoblocks with the Nirvana upgrades. Mac, awm and I were all surprised at the imaging and solid bass from the Hypex amps.

I have also heard Mac's Hypex amps which he took great care to use Cerafine caps for power supply and seperate transformers. Sounded excellent with his setup. But I chose to go with a single large toroid for my UcD400 amps. It's large enough that I can add a 4th module to each amp for 8 channels total and not have to change the power supply.

[MarkM]

I'm surprised no one has chimed in on these amps.  Of course DIY Cable has been offering them what-a coulple of months??  ...

Hey.. we have only sold four amps so it's not like we have a lot of people to chime in.  


I think most people don't understand how small this market really is.   We don't sell thousands of amps, speakers or anything else.   I wish we did.   I'd actually be able to make a living.  

Kevin,  I realize the amps are brand new for you, so I was implying that there just aren't enough out there yet.   A home audition program might help get the word out about your amps and put some nickels in your pocket.... An amp needs to show up at one of the audio meets/raves or whatever they want to call it.  Your pricing for a complete 2 channel UCD400 amp seems very reasonable.


Al, I will keep that in mind regarding over spec the power supply for future modules.   The Hypex modules are very appealing with the reviews out there and on diyaudio.

[Kevin P]

I'm working on a demo amp.   We have a couple secret weapons in coming down the pike and I've been waiting to get them locked and loaded.   Give us another 4-6 weeks and we should have a reference 2-channel demo amp that will make the rounds.   It's going to be more expensive than our current price but I think most people will find it worth the extra scratch.

[guest1632]

Sure... you can set up two supplies in one chassis.   You can even run two separate power cords into the chassis.   I'm working on a 2-channel next week that uses two supplies.   I'm waiting on UCD400AD modules for it and a few other parts so it's going to be several weeks until I have a listening evaluation for it.

The size of all our chassis:   12.5" x 3.5" x 16.75"

Dang, Kevin, that's a big chassis. Will be interested in your listening session. Will you be comparing the monos in a box to one using a single transformer? What do you estimate the price to be with two completely separate supplies for two channels?

Ray

[Kevin P]

Dang, Kevin, that's a big chassis. Will be interested in your listening session. Will you be comparing the monos in a box to one using a single transformer? What do you estimate the price to be with two completely separate supplies for two channels?

Ray

Big!???   That is a standard 2U rack mount.   A 1U rack mount is too small for most transformers and has serious limitations on input/outputs.    You can go to a non-standard compont size but I hate things not designed to a standard.    They don't fit right in a standard equipment rack.  

Doing two supplies isn't hard.   It's just an extra transformer, two extra bridge rectifiers and a different layout.  

Ok... I'm dying to tell some of the details of our new Super Duper Dual Mono Romper Stomper.  I think I'll call it the Exodus SDDMRS for short.  

Single 2U chassis with a solid steel divider between the two channels.   Each channel will have it's own power cord, DC filter, RFI filter, slow start, transformer, dual rectifier and a full montey power supply.   We pull out all the stops going full bore on the power supply.   Each transformer will be 500VA and the power supply will have 40,000uF per channel.

Dual UCD400AD modules with a few extras.   The details I'll leave for later but we have made a couple careful modifications which will remain part of our secret sauce.    I've ponied up some cash to pay the engineering for Audience to produce a specialized capacitor for the ouput filter, which is just one of the module modifications.   This is the 0.68uF capacitor on the LC output filter.   I've also done some preliminary work on a couple other modifications which I'll release more information on once we have more listening time with the amps.

Overall this represents everything we can do with the UCDs without completely redesigning the amplifier.   As good as these sound that is obviously not needed.      

Price?   Should land around $1800 with two Asylum Cords standard.

[guest1632]

Big!???   That is a standard 2U rack mount.   A 1U rack mount is too small for most transformers and has serious limitations on input/outputs.    You can go to a non-standard compont size but I hate things not designed to a standard.    They don't fit right in a standard equipment rack.  

Doing two supplies isn't hard.   It's just an extra transformer, two extra bridge rectifiers and a different layout.  

Ok... I'm dying to tell some of the details of our new Super Duper Dual Mono Romper Stomper.  I ...

Hi Kevin, Sorry to ask this, but did I mis something. I thought the original was 1,050.00. Now, it's 1800. Let's see, another $50 for the Ad8620. I knew about the audience cap development upgrade. that's now done, good. That's probably another $100. So now we are at $1200.00? Don't need two IEC connectors. one is enough. Don't know how much the extra transformer is. Pardon me, I am just trying to justify the difference in cost. I'm not bitching at all, just wanted to understand. So no need at all if I put you in a difensive position. That's not my intention. That soft start yeah, I remember reading up on that. If my understanding is correct, putting hexfreds or "softstart" diode rectification negates the need for the softstart circuitry. Something for you to look in to further. If I do order this configuration, do you cut the holes as needed, or would I be stuck with the extra IEC connector?

Ray

[StevenACNJ]

Kevin.

"I've ponied up some cash to pay the engineering for Audience to produce a specialized capacitor for the ouput filter, which is just one of the module modifications. This is the 0.68uF capacitor on the LC output filter"


Will you be selling the .68uf  63v caps from Audience seperatly for the DIY crowd? If so when will they be available and how much will they be?

Thanks

[Kevin P]

Hi Kevin, Sorry to ask this, but did I mis something. I thought the original was 1,050.00. Now, it's 1800. Let's see, another $50 for the Ad8620. I knew about the audience cap development upgrade. that's now done, good. That's probably another $100. So now we are at $1200.00? Don't need two IEC connectors. one is enough. Don't know how much the extra transformer is. Pardon me, I am just trying to justify the difference in cost. I'm not bitching at all, just wanted to understand. So no need at all if I put y ...

The extra is my profit margin.  

The base version will still be available so we won't pull the rug out from under the bargain hunter.

The dual mono version is still under development though and there will be a certain amount of money wrapped up in development cost.   There is also much more parts cost in terms of an extra transformer($75), metal work($50), extra DC filter & softstart ($100 for both), extra rectifiers and upgraded caps ($50), UCD400AD vs. UCD400ST ($50 per module $100 total), Auricap 0.68uF output caps ($100), modified modules ($100),  upgraded power cord ($50), and upgraded wire & connectors ($50).

As you can see the price adds up quickly when you go full bore.   You could also use Blackgates in the PS and double the price again.  

If you look at the typical retail audio product only about 20-25% is wrapped up in parts cost.   Our ratio is typically 50-75% in parts cost.

[Kevin P]

Kevin.

"I've ponied up some cash to pay the engineering for Audience to produce a specialized capacitor for the ouput filter, which is just one of the module modifications. This is the 0.68uF capacitor on the LC output filter"


Will you be selling the .68uf  63v caps from Audience seperatly for the DIY crowd? If so when will they be available and how much will they be?

Thanks

Yes we will.   In fact I'm going to have exclusive rights to the retail market in the USA for the first year.   Its' part of the deal I struck up with John for paying for the engineering/tooling.  

I don't know what the final retail price is going to be yet.   John McDonald at Audience is going to set the final price.   From the cost of 500 units it's looking like the retail price will fall around $40-$50 each.    I have 46 samples coming my way but we are still 4-8 weeks out and most of those will be used in our custom modules.   I'd say we are at least 10 weeks out from having them available for DIY use.

[guest1632]

The extra is my profit margin.  :-)

The base version will still be available so we won't pull the rug out from under the bargain hunter.

The dual mono version is still under development though and there will be a certain amount of money wrapped up in development cost.   There is also much more parts cost in terms of an extra transformer($75), metal work($50), extra DC filter & softstart ($100 for both), extra rectifiers and upgraded caps ($50), UCD400AD vs. UCD400ST ($50 per module $100 total), Aurica ...

Hi Kevin, Thanks for being candid about the price stuff. Is that auricap that's the one that has been especially developed for these modules. Are you gonna look in to doing this upgrade to the 180's too? Yeah, I know there isn't that much price difference between the two.Once you get all the stuff fixed up for this amp, maybe you ought to offer a package price for the amp and speeks. Now you gotta come up with a preamp.  How is the TT coming along?

Ray

[Kevin P]

Hi Kevin, Thanks for being candid about the price stuff. Is that auricap that's the one that has been especially developed for these modules. Are you gonna look in to doing this upgrade to the 180's too? Yeah, I know there isn't that much price difference between the two.Once you get all the stuff fixed up for this amp, maybe you ought to offer a package price for the amp and speeks. Now you gotta come up with a preamp.  How is the TT coming along?

Ray

Yes... I think Roger over at www.diyaudio.com had a hand in developing it.   It's the same capacitor he talks about in the threads.    My only involvement has been in the last couple weeks and in coughing up some money to push them into development.

We will do the UCD180s also.   I have no problem offering either.  

For the preamp we are doing a two pronged approach.   We have been building some step-up transformers for John @ Bent Audio and when he releases his new preamp design with the TX102s we will build and sell them in cooperation with John.    Dan Wiggins also has a nice acitve multichannel preamp design that I've been working with him on.   It offers multichannel control at a lower price point than the Bent unit so we will probably do both.

The TT project is plodding along.   I'm mainly held up by suppliers getting me quotes at the moment.   There are not many places who want to do the small numbers we are trying to get done and I don't have the time and resources to do it in-house.    I hope to have the first 30 production units ready to go before CES though.   That is the goal.  

I'm also working on a low cost multichannel HT system.   It's going to be built in China so it's a turn-key product.   That has taken up a large chunk of my time.   Once again, I hope to have the first production units for CES.   We are cutting it close because none of these things get designed, built and shipped overnight.   The HT system has been under development for well over a year.

[guest1632]

Yes... I think Roger over at www.diyaudio.com had a hand in developing it.   It's the same capacitor he talks about in the threads.    My only involvement has been in the last couple weeks and in coughing up some money to push them into development.

We will do the UCD180s also.   I have no problem offering either.  

For the preamp we are doing a two pronged approach.   We have been building some step-up transformers for John @ Bent Audio and when he releases his new preamp design with the TX102s we w ...

Hi Kevin,

Well, ask a busy man to get something done, and it generally does. I've emailed Roger back and forth, definitely a knowledgeable guy. You definitely have enough on your plate. So when I order the deluxe package whether it be the 180 or 400, do you cut out the holes individually for the IEC socket, or because I just want just one socket for both amps, there would be a spot cutout for the 2nd one. Another aproach is to use the one socket, and two on/off toggles. Just a thought.

Ray

Ray