The RA8 and a new announcement (see measurements too)

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Danny Richie

First I want to tell you guys about the new RA8.

I know that most of you guys following the talk on the forums have already read about them, but I wanted to get into the meat of it a little more and give the first listening impressions feedback on them.

This is a joint project between GR Research and Raw Acoustics, and this model will be sold exclusively through Raw Acoustics.

Before I get any further into these I just want to say that Al Wooley did a really nice job on the enclosures. The Cherry finish looks great, and I know he'll be offering them in any finish you can think of.



My wife even likes the look and finish on them, and she's picky.



Here is a one watt/one meter measurement on them.



Yes, they really are 95db sensitivity.

One meter is really too close to measure a speaker of this size but it was okay for working with the center section crossover. Below 400Hz is not very accurate at this close range.

So the mic was moved back. Here we are now at 60".



This gets a little more of an accurate representation of the bottom end but is still too close.

The six outer woofers actually roll into the upper woofers a lot smoother than the graph shows. My un-gated in room responses and RTA responses showed a pretty smooth roll off into the mid-bases.

Still getting a response that maintains a +/-1db level through this wide of a range is very good even amoung our smoothest designs.



So as you can see, the array is actually a long WWWMTMWWW configuration. Only the two inner woofers in a sealed box section crossover to the tweeter. The outer six woofers are filling in all the baffle step loss (so that there is no loss) and crossing over to the center woofers in the 230Hz range. The outer woofers are in a ported box.

This will be a really easy load to drive too. It maintains a very smooth impedance that never dips below 7 ohms.



Low wattage tube amp lovers are going to eat this one up!

How does it sound and what does it compare to?

Well, I have plenty to compare it to around here. I believe I'll just stand them up in front of these...



You know these new RA8's really don't seam all that big after all.  :lol:

Really though, they should work well even in fairly small rooms, just like a standard MTM design, like our A/V-3.

They still have some burning in to do but first impressions are pretty dang good.

I hate to even start to compare them to the other speakers pictured. Lets just say that it is a whole lot closer in comparison than it should be given the price points of the two.

The RA8 is a serious speaker, and at $799. for the kit and $2,000. fully assembled and ready to play, I don't see anything topping this right now. This makes them really hard to compare them to anything even close to their price point. Maybe the question isn't really what can we compare them to, but what can be compared to them.

Oh yea, that price includes Sonicaps in the tweeter circuit too.

The standard female vocals often used to demo with sounded smooth, lush, full, and were exceptional clean. In fact everything I through at it was exceptionally clean. It made me want to turn it up more and more to find some kind of limit. I have yet to find it.

The highs are as clean as they get too. The ribbon tweeter really can't be topped in the top end. Plus, the wider face plate cut out on this tweeter yielded better off axis response than any of the other Aurum Cantus ribbons tested.

The clean and effortless ability to hit higher SPL's drove me to test that range. Throwing on a little Evanescense was a real joy. It wasn't until I played this CD that I realized I needed something to cover the first octave. I was getting in room responses down to close to 40Hz in my room pretty easy.

So I added the SW-12A and PR-12A sub combo, seen in the back ground with the Mappa Burl finish on it. This really completed the package.

Evanescence now rips. I mean it will rip your insides out and clean as a whistle. It was effortlessly knocking it out. Vocals were scarry real and goose bumps were popping up all over. Even the drums and electric guitar was giving me goose bumps.

The Chinese percussion from the number 3 Burmester disk pounded like real drums in my room. The sound stage was huge as well. Maybe having the speakers about 8 feet out into the room was helping this a little.

Blue Man Group pounded equally well to near live levels without a problem, and yes, I have seen them live and from the 3rd row.

Back to female vocals and I think I have broken them in a little more with all those high level outputs. Vocals are really deep into the sound stage and starring straight at one speaker, it appeared to not be on. Nothing appeared to be coming from the speaker itself, but from a sound stage that encircled the space behind it. Very transparent!

These are truly a jewel of a speaker. Even I could live with these in my listening room for a long time and not miss anything especially with the sub. It really completes it as a system.

What could be better?

Well, I guess this leads me to the announcement part.

Al's new RA104.5 ribbon is really good, we knew it would be, and it was made with a 104.5mm face plate for a reason.  It's a drop in replacement for our GR-T2 soft dome tweeter.

Now all of our A/V series kits will be offered with Al's new ribbon.

Yep, A/V-1, A/V-3, A/V-3S models will all be offered with the ribbon tweeter, and sold exclusively through Raw Acoustics. These will be called the new RA/V series. I will be doing all the design work on these to incorporate all the necessary network changes. Standard A/V-3 and A/V-3S kits can be upgraded with the new tweeter and tweeter network if needed. The RA/V-1 will have to be redesigned using a parallel network, so for that model the tweeter and all of the network will be different.

This means high end complete home theater packages with the ribbon in any combination you want as kits or complete and ready to play.

We are also going to offer a long center channel to match the RA8, maybe even two different models. On one we drop off the two outer woofers leaving just six total. For a shorter version we drop off four of the outer woofers leaving just four total.

This is going to be a really high value line and I am really excited about it for Raw Acoustics and for GR Research.

BradJudy

The RA8 and a new announcement (see measurements too)
« Reply #1 on: 25 Aug 2005, 11:24 pm »
Very cool - I look forward to hearing them.  :)

Dang it, must get that CD into the mail....

RAW

The RA8 and a new announcement (see measurements too)
« Reply #2 on: 26 Aug 2005, 01:58 am »
Thanks to Danny :D
There may have been a few around that were wondering why I have been posting a few things on the GR forum that could and are posted on my forum.
Well this post by Danny explains it.
Danny and I have been working on these now for a few months and the designs coming using my new ribbon will be stunning.

And the questions.
-Yes the RA/V series will include CNC(PRE CUT) baffles and Magnetic grill included in the kit prices.
-These new kits will be complete as my HT series.Anyone using a  Jig saw,drill and sander can build on of these kits.As all the holes that are important (M-130 ,RA104.5 ribbon) are all PRE CUT.Leaving just the port holes and terminal cup holes to be cut and yes they can be cut with only a jig saw.Tools down to the min.
But for those wood savy people flush mounting the terminal cup (CUSTOM RAW Acoustics cups) you are welcome to do a small amount of router work :mrgreen:

-All these RA/V series will use the Sonicap and foils as a standard crossover only.

The RA8 and matching centers and yes we will have 2 for those looking for a few options.
WMTMW and a WWMTMWW Sealed both designs
Both center channels will match well with any of the RAV series and the RA8.

Both Danny and I see this as a great design series that we have talked about for 6 months finally coming into place.
Some have been waiting for the RA/V-4 since we let a small amount of info leak out a few months ago.Those people you have not been left out feel free to contact me about date and time frame on specific models.

Getting XBL^2 drivers into the new designs will come with time and proper changes will be done by Danny on the design end of the kits.
Those wanting to hold off till the XBL^2 drivers are here can be waiting for a while.As I know first hand that XBL^2 is not just say it and it happens first crack.Not even close.This can take some time.

There is no problem having Danny design the models and retain the right to sell the designs from RAW Acoustics.Why not Danny is a great person to deal with and yes people Danny does know a few things about crossover selection.I will just leave that up to him.

Watson

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The RA8 and a new announcement (see measurements too)
« Reply #3 on: 26 Aug 2005, 05:59 am »
Al, how did you finish the cherry?  I really like how light it turned out.  Did you just shellac or poly it without oiling first?

wendell

The RA8 and a new announcement (see measurements too)
« Reply #4 on: 26 Aug 2005, 06:02 am »
Wow!! Those are really nice!  

I just got done building the a/v3 for my HT.  and now I can swap the the soft dome for a ribbon,very tempting.   Danny,  what are the difference in sound with the soft dome and the ribbon?  would you consider it an upgrade or just different taste in sound?   Also would the crossover have to be changed in any way?

Now I feel like upgrading my AV3 for some RA8 :mrgreen:

maybe I will be building a new set of speakers soon,  let me see if I can get them as a Christmas gift from the Wife :lol:

RAW

The RA8 and a new announcement (see measurements too)
« Reply #5 on: 26 Aug 2005, 02:08 pm »
Watson

The finish does not get any justice in the photos.
We use Laquer 2-3 sealer coats sand then 3 coats of laquer.
we can do from flat shean to just under semi gloss.
Laquers work the best for use as we have a controled room for spraying as well as equipment to do so.

Wendell
Thanks
The ribbons will be offered in the new RA/V designs.
Sound quality, mids and lows stay the same the real change is in the upper end, more detail and very rich and warm.Always nice to have out of a ribbon.

arthurs

The RA8 and a new announcement (see measurements too)
« Reply #6 on: 26 Aug 2005, 05:19 pm »
Look awesome guys!  I cannot wait to hear them.  Danny, if these can make the Jam Saturday it will be an over the top day.  Fingers crossed here.

Danny Richie

The RA8 and a new announcement (see measurements too)
« Reply #7 on: 26 Aug 2005, 05:26 pm »
You don't even have to cross your fingers. I am bringing them.

arthurs

The RA8 and a new announcement (see measurements too)
« Reply #8 on: 26 Aug 2005, 05:28 pm »
You are the man.  Any chance you can squeeze some stands in for the Focus speakers?

Danny Richie

The RA8 and a new announcement (see measurements too)
« Reply #9 on: 26 Aug 2005, 05:29 pm »
Yep, I am going to bring a set of stands too.

arthurs

The RA8 and a new announcement (see measurements too)
« Reply #10 on: 26 Aug 2005, 05:32 pm »
Thank you, looking forward to it.

JoshK

The RA8 and a new announcement (see measurements too)
« Reply #11 on: 26 Aug 2005, 05:35 pm »
What is going on above 12khz?

Danny Richie

The RA8 and a new announcement (see measurements too)
« Reply #12 on: 26 Aug 2005, 05:49 pm »
Quote
What is going on above 12khz?


They are flat to about 16kHz then there is a peak at the top end. This is typical of a lot of ribbons and is present only in the on axis response. Move off axis a few degrees and it flattens out.

I can hear to 19,500Hz still but can't really detect the peak in the top end with any music. It's out of the music range and into upper level harmonics only.

No worries.

texasphile

The RA8 and a new announcement (see measurements too)
« Reply #13 on: 26 Aug 2005, 06:38 pm »
Hello all,

Since I live one town over from Danny, I had the opportunity to audition the RA8 speaker last night.  8)   I really was impressed with the sound of the speaker.  It had an airy quality to it that some soft dome tweeter-based speakers do not have.  As Danny can attest, I normally do not care for a ribbon tweeter in a loudspeaker, but I really liked the sound of these.  Congratulations to Al and Danny on a lovely looking and sounding speaker.

Chris

JoshK

The RA8 and a new announcement (see measurements too)
« Reply #14 on: 26 Aug 2005, 06:50 pm »
Quote from: Danny
Quote
What is going on above 12khz?


They are flat to about 16kHz then there is a peak at the top end.....


Need I remind you that this is logarithmic scale?  That is closer to 11khz than 16khz.

Danny Richie

Hey, where's the peak?
« Reply #15 on: 26 Aug 2005, 07:29 pm »
Quote
Need I remind you that this is logarithmic scale? That is closer to 11khz than 16khz.


Yea, but I can drop a line right on it to see exactly where it is, and I just did. The peaked area starts at 15,637Hz as it begins its rise.

In fact, the response on these are so smooth and so accurate that I am thinking about renaming them the RM-40 Eaters.  :wink:  Just kidding with you Josh.

JoshK

The RA8 and a new announcement (see measurements too)
« Reply #16 on: 26 Aug 2005, 07:39 pm »
I am not trying to fight with you but the elbow on the chart that you posted here in your first thread is no where close to 15.7khz.  Sorry but it isn't.

Danny Richie

The RA8 and a new announcement (see measurements too)
« Reply #17 on: 26 Aug 2005, 07:48 pm »
Quote
Sorry but it isn't.


Sorry, but it is. See Red dotted line and numbers.


JoshK

The RA8 and a new announcement (see measurements too)
« Reply #18 on: 26 Aug 2005, 08:00 pm »
OK, so I apologize. my bad..

ekovalsky

The RA8 and a new announcement (see measurements too)
« Reply #19 on: 26 Aug 2005, 08:03 pm »
Quote from: JoshK
I am not trying to fight with you but the elbow on the chart that you posted here in your first thread is no where close to 15.7khz.  Sorry but it isn't.


Josh,

On a log scale half way between 10khz and 20khz is going to be around 15-16khz.  The 1khz steps get close together near 20khz and are further apart near 10khz.  So Danny's number looks right to me.

Edit:  already addressed by earlier posts I didn't see.