[Vinnie R.]

All,

Here is a link to the latest Red Wine modification offering...the all-battery modded SB2!  

http://www.redwineaudio.com/SB2_Mods.html

If you can't tell, I have fallen in love with the modded SB2 feeding a Clari-T (with a short pair of 1 ft. interconnects)    

Using the modded analog outputs, I am left with no desire to use an external dac, but the modded SB2 also makes for a great battery powered transport (coax digital output) as well as a battery transport + built-in dac.

It also has a 40-step volume control (done digitally before the internal dac), so you can feed a power amp and take the analog volume control (potentiometer, stepped atten, tranformer, whatever) out of the equation!
I'm not sure about the algorithim that Slim Devices is using for the volume control, but I know it sounds great!  

No moving parts, lots of buffering, .wav files or lossless .flac files, and now 200GB+ external harddrives are getting cheaper and cheaper....
the winds of change are a blowin'  

I will certainly bring the modded SB2 + Clari-T (or Teac) combo to RMAF this year!

[holyghostfire21]

How does the analog outs on the Monica II compare to the SB2 analog outs? Is there much of a difference?

[lonewolfny42]

Vinnie R. :

I will certainly bring the modded SB2 + Clari-T (or Teac) combo to RMAF this year!

[/list:u]

Speaking with Louis at the last Rave, he said..." Vinnie's got it easy for the RMAF, all his equipement fits into a suitcase".....nice !!! [/list:u]

[mgalusha]

That looks very nice indeed. I'm really looking forward to hearing your system at the RMAF.

The comment about having all your gear fit into a suitcase is awesome. I've helped Wayne from Bolder cable set up and tear down a couple of times and not having to haul all that gear up and down will be a blessing for you.

mike

[brj]

Vinnie-

Is there any chance that you could integrate everything into a single enclosure?  I don't know if the current encluosure has enough additional space available or what RF/EMI issues might result, but a single box implementation would be rather appealing...

Thanks!

[JLM]

Great news!  Seems too good to believe.

So many ?s:

1.  Does the SB2 volume control also control internet radio signals?

2.  Do I have this right, could a SB2 with PC plus amp plus speakers plus cabling be all I need for an entire system (to provide internet radio and CDs and downloaded music)?

3.  How does sound quality (of uncompressed CD files) compare to a good transport/DAC?

4.  How does sound quality compare to USB options?

5.  How much hard disk memory would 1000 CDs in lossless compressed files require?

6.  Can the batteries be changed to fully charge in an hour with a 10 - 12 hour run time like the modded Teac?

7.  I'm a total PC dupe, can I do this?

[mcgsxr]

JLM, this is getting closer to what you are after, but at present I am not certain it meets all the req's for you.

The Squeezebox volume will control any signal passing through it, and out the analog outputs, so yes, that would include Internet Radio.

It could be all you need, for ripped audio, and Internet Radio.  Think of this gear (the PC, and wiring, and the Squeezebox) as a giant pre+tuner+transport.  This is to say, that you can play stored and streaming content, but will still need amp and speakers.

Lots of folks are getting right into FLAC files stored, as the front end of their system - plenty of chat about this on Square Circle here on AC, and on parts of AA.  Many claim that lossless FLAC files equal that of megabuck transports.

Unsure about 4 or 5, but the time to rip 1000 cd's is considerable...

Vinne will handle 6, and likely other Q's too.

Number 7 is the hardest one to get to - it really depends on what you mean by total dupe - if you mean that you are a compentent computer user, but fear physical PC construction, you are OK.  If you mean that you are unlikely to want to learn to use a couple of new applications, then there may still be a delta between this tech, and your comfort level.

I have yet to plunge into this side of it, but am interested to see where it goes.

Looking forward to the insights of others around here,

[Vinnie R.]

Speaking with Louis at the last Rave, he said..." Vinnie's got it easy for the RMAF, all his equipement fits into a suitcase".....nice !!!

Hi Lonewolfny42,

Yes, just my small, battery-powered gear, and a laptop for my SB2.
Let Louis deal with the heavy speakers!  

How does the analog outs on the Monica II compare to the SB2 analog outs? Is there much of a difference?

Hi HGF21,

IMO, the modded SB2 sounds superior to the Monica 2... faster, punchier bass, better retrieval of low-level detail, blacker background.  It also has much more output voltage, and can drive down to a 5k load with ease!

For the cost, the battery powered Monica 2 is damn good, but with the battery modded SB2, you enter a higher level of performance and don't have to be concerned with a transport, spdif, digital cables, etc.  It's just a whole new way of doing things, and I personnal like it much better, as do my ears  

That looks very nice indeed. I'm really looking forward to hearing your system at the RMAF.

Thanks, mgalusha!  Great to hear you'll be stopping by, and I'll be looking forward to meeting you and demoing the Red Wine + Omega gear at RMAF.... it'll be here before we know it!

Is there any chance that you could integrate everything into a single enclosure? I don't know if the current encluosure has enough additional space available or what RF/EMI issues might result, but a single box implementation would be rather appealing...

Hi brj,

An integrated version is something that I'd consider if there was a large enough demand for it.  The advantage of having it left as a separate component is that you can upgrade the other components in the future.  Also, the modded SB2 would just need the little Clari-T (or Teac) connected by a short pair of cables, so the added complexity is minimal, and you isolate them with their own enclosures and battery...  

Regards,

[Vinnie R.]

Great news!  Seems too good to believe.

So many ?s:

Hi JLM,

Let me try to answer all your questions in the order that you presented them to me:

1) Yes, the SB2's volume will also control the volume of internet radio, which also passes onto the internal Burr Brown dac..

2) If you order the wireless SB2 (which I highly recommend because it makes life easier...no long ethernet cable needed to connect to the PC, the PC can be located somewhere else in the house, etc), you'll need a wireless router.  For example, I have a Linksys router that I spent around $60 on in Best Buy.  Your PC (desktop or laptop) will need a wireless network card, which are available pretty cheap these days.

Once you have the wireless SB2, PC, and wireless network, you just need ripping software (I recommend Exact Audio Copy (EAC), which you can download for free and it makes bit-perfect rips), and if you want, a compression software (I recommend Free Lossless Audio Compression (FLAC), which is also free and not controlled by Microsoft, Apple, etc.

The last thing you'll need is to just add an amp and speakers.  If you want a bigger hard drive, you can buy an external hard drive that connect to your PC via USB.  They have 200GB drives out there in the $100 - $200 range, and they can store plenty of lossless compressed music, or .wav files.

3) The sound quality of lossless compressed files (ex. .flac files) or uncompressed .wav files sound, in my honest opinion, better than using a CD transport and external dac.  It takes the transport out of the equation.  The modded SB2 is the best source I've heard so far...it completely has me amazed, and it the reason why I put my battery CD transport on the back burner (possible forever)!

4) See my answer above  

5) Assuming that the 1000 CDs are full-length CDs (let's say 650MB), and using .flac (lossless compression) compresses about 40% (which gives you about 390MB), you'll need 390MB x 1000 = about 400GB.  Not all CDs are as large a 650MB.  Anyway, storing 1000 CDs in lossless compression is a lot of CDs!

6) No, the battery used for the SB2 mod takes overnight to charge if you play it to the max recommended playtime of 6 to 7 hours.  The SB2 draws a lot of current!

7) Yes, you can!  It is a lot easier than you think, and Slim Devices has their own discussion forums, wiki, phone support, FAQ, etc.  I am by no means a computer wiz, and I found setting up the SB2 to be quite easy and fun.  

As always, there are going to be those who won't like the idea of something new and different, and there are going to be others who will want to soak this all in and enjoy listening to their music collection on a whole new level.

[powerbench]

Looks like you have another winner . ..Vinnie....I may put that baby on my  Christmas shopping list.I  feel the integration in a pc based home entertainment/ multi -use centre is the wave of the future ,once all the techno compatibility issues for hi-end users are worked out... Now to take that unit one more step and make it  receive video from a pc/dvd with a vid out to a monitor/tv.

[JLM]

SqueezeBox 2 ala Vinnie seems like a winner all the way around, if you have a PC.

For me it seems that the technology has reached a user friendly stage.

Vinnie, could you sell a 2nd power supply with switching so you could run 10 - 12 hours per day?

Anyone want to buy a Sony S7700 and Ack dAck! v.2?

[Dmason]

I am interested to know how upsampling sounds with an optimal PSU, etc, and jitter free bitstream, compared to NON OS, which has a sonic that, once your ears become accustomed to the fluid, blackness, the connection to the music, the fancy method sounds very, VERY artificial, to my ears, even on really "good" players. I think getting rid of the CD's themselves is a step up because the pits and their reading apparently generates jitter. Now I guess you can get rid of all of that. If you could combine the buttery analogue sound of NON OS, with the clear, hot signal of the OS SB2, wired directly into an amp with a nice short IC, this definitely qualifies for

Less=More

and everytime I have employed that concept, the sound has improved. It has become my mantra, the very antithesis of how Thee High End would like you to think. It became a situation where, instead of considering outstanding components, the idea came to get rid of as many extraneous components as possible, making a bigger difference than addition, regardless of their "quality"

The SB2 concept is looking mighty tasty, and perhaps is the greatest Less is More jump one could make. I just wish someone could wave a wand and make it all happen here, without having to deal with new learning curves.  

[Brad]

The slimdevices website also now offers a ripping service......might be beneficial for those of us with more $ than time....

[brj]

Is there any chance that you could integrate everything into a single enclosure? I don't know if the current encluosure has enough additional space available or what RF/EMI issues might result, but a single box implementation would be rather appealing...

An integrated version is something that I'd consider if there was a large enough demand for it. The advantage of having it left as a separate component is that you can upgrade the other components in the future. Also, the modded SB2 would just need the little Clari-T (or Teac) connected by a short pair of cables, so the added complexity is minimal, and you isolate them with their own enclosures and battery...

I might have been a bit imprecise in my wording.  When I said "everything", I meant to refer to the sum total of all Squeezebox parts, not other other audio components.  (I do like this idea as well, however!)

In otherwords, could you fit the VFD and all Squeezebox internals inside of the enclosure you add to house the battery.  This would require cutouts in the aluminum enclosure for the VFD, the antenna and all of the connectors, and probably some additional degree of internal EMI shielding.  I don't think this would be difficult from the engineering standpoint (with the possible exception of antenna performance concerns), but I'm not sure what all of those extra cutouts would do to the enclosure cost.

Sorry for the confusion!  Any additional thoughts?

[JLM]

Actually I only have around 300 CDs, about 100 of which I only listen to rarely.  So the initial ripping of 200 CDs isn't quite so taunting.  This is another example of jumping into the new (less proven) technology versus it becomeing too hard to do.

And our new house is wired with CAT5 for telephone, fax, data, and a spare to 16 locations including the front wall of my listening room/office, so I don't think I'll need the wireless version, additional router, and wireless modem.

Does anyone have links to download Exact Audio Copy (EAC) and/or Free Lossless Audio Compression (FLAC)?

Thanks.

[Jon L]

Actually I only have around 300 CDs, about 100 of which I only listen to rarely.  So the initial ripping of 200 CDs isn't quite so taunting.  This is another example of jumping into the new (less proven) technology versus it becomeing too hard to do.

And our new house is wired with CAT5 for telephone, fax, data, and a spare to 16 locations including the front wall of my listening room/office, so I don't think I'll need the wireless version, additional router, and wireless modem.

Does anyone have links ...

Perhaps Vinnie should have a page on Red Wine website where he goes through computer-for-dummies in steps with proper links to EAC, Foobar, FLAC.  I 'could' point to Steve's Empirical website where he already does this, but Steve probably meant them for his customers

BTW, we need to have a SoCal Red Wine demo/get-together so we can demo Monica and modded SB2 for ourselves?

[MttBsh]

To take advantage of the incredible wealth of available internet audio, for a while now I've been downloading FLAC files, converting them to WAV, and burning to CD with excellent results, so removing the CDs from the equation seems like an obvious move (I have a 200GB drive and wireless Linksys). Still, I'm not ready to give up the ol' transport just yet. Who's to say you can't have both? My Clari-T has two inputs, so I could continue to use my S7700 transport & external tubedac in tandem with the Squeezebox until I can wean myself off CDs.

The Squeezbox represents a paradigm shift in audio, but if it offers superior sound quality and better access to and storage of music, it's the way of the future, and it's good that Vinnie is an early adopter, always looking ahead.

Matt

[Vinnie R.]

Does anyone have links to download Exact Audio Copy (EAC) and/or Free Lossless Audio Compression (FLAC)?...

Here you go JLM,

http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/

http://flac.sourceforge.net/download.html

You need to download Slim Server here:
http://www.slimdevices.com/su_downloads.html

I need to add these links to my webpage, along with other useful setup links.  

In the meantime, you can find plenty of useful info on the Slim Devices Forum: http://forums.slimdevices.com/

Hope this helps,

Vinnie

PS: I was over a Clari-T customer's house yesterday (he lives only 40 minutes away) and we modded his SB2.  He emailed me today saying that he will be ditching his external dac, and that he'll be posting impressions soon!  

[Vinnie R.]

Perhaps Vinnie should have a page on Red Wine website where he goes through computer-for-dummies in steps with proper links to EAC, Foobar, FLAC.  I 'could' point to Steve's Empirical website where he already does this, but Steve probably meant them for his customers

BTW, we need to have a SoCal Red Wine demo/get-together so we can demo Monica and modded SB2 for ourselves?

Hi Jon L,

Yes, I will be getting this going real soon.  No need to use Foobar....you need Slim Server.  All the software needed is FREE.

Hi MttBsh,

You can also use the SB2 as a transport (use the digital output).

The Squeezbox represents a paradigm shift in audio, but if it offers superior sound quality and better access to and storage of music, it's the way of the future, and it's good that Vinnie is an early adopter, always looking ahead.

Thanks...I'll be all over the SB2, as I clearly see it as a paradighm shift as well.  I've been putting in the late hours modding and testing in the last month, and I am hooked!

Hi brj,

The modded SB2 + battery enclosure integrated in one encosure idea is something I may consider later on.  For now, the SB2 sits nicely on top of the battery enclosure, and the power cable is very short.

Thanks for all your interest and valuable feedback...

[MttBsh]

Vinnie,

Thanks for the clarification. I was confused as in looking at the SB2, it does not appear to have anywhere to insert CDs.

In your view, does the modded SB2, when used as a CD player, achieve the level of CD playback you hoped to offer with the battery powered player you had on the drawing board? If so, the SB2 really is the best of both worlds.

Matt