Who is the real Audio Crack??

Florian · « **on:** 25 Jul 2005, 01:46 pm »

OK guys here goes a 1 Billion dollar question

Scenario: All speakers, cables etc.. Hooked up in pahse

Result= Image slightly off center

Scenario2: Speaker cables (left right) inversted at amps. Left and Right Channel also swapped at CDP output.

Result2: Perfect center image

Why for gods sake?

John Casler · « **Reply #1 on:** 25 Jul 2005, 02:54 pm »

Hey Florian,

Likely one of the components (tubed?) is inverting phase, and reversing the speaker leads corrected it.

Florian · « **Reply #2 on:** 25 Jul 2005, 03:08 pm »

That could be it. But i was inverting phase on both speakers and swapping the channels. Which then i corrected by switching the connections on the cd-player. My Unison is Tubed, so that could be it.

Thanks John

-Flo

Florian · « **Reply #3 on:** 25 Jul 2005, 04:12 pm »

I do have a second question tough.

My Unison CD-Pplayer uses two tubes in the output stage. When playing classical music and some jazz the cd-player sounds wonderfull. But if i add Madonna to the mix the cd-player distrots horribly. Could this be the tubes inside acting differently? It sed 1 tube in unbalanced mode and 2 tubes in balanced mode. The problem is less obvious in unbalanced than in balanced mode. I did order new tubes but i would like to know if that could be it too.

-Flo

JohnR · « **Reply #4 on:** 25 Jul 2005, 04:25 pm »

C'mon!! you're pulling our legs!

Florian · « **Reply #5 on:** 25 Jul 2005, 04:28 pm »

I wish i were, but i can actually demonstrate it. This is a real issue and i seriously dont get it. Neither do my audio buddys here. It makes no sense since by switching both channels out of phase they are now back in phase only with switcedh channels. And to compensate i switch the outputs on the CDP. I dont get it either.

-Flo

BradJudy · « **Reply #6 on:** 25 Jul 2005, 04:42 pm »

Quote from: Florian

I wish i were, but i can actually demonstrate it. This is a real issue and i seriously dont get it. Neither do my audio buddys here. It makes no sense since by switching both channels out of phase they are now back in phase only with switcedh channels. And to compensate i switch the outputs on the CDP. I dont get it either.

How does switching the phase on both speakers require switching the left and right channels at the source to compensate? That doesn't make sense.

Bingenito · « **Reply #7 on:** 25 Jul 2005, 04:49 pm »

Quote

Madonna to the mix the cd-player distrots horribly.

Simple fix. Stop listening to Madonna and everthing will be fine

Florian · « **Reply #8 on:** 25 Jul 2005, 05:00 pm »

Quote from: BradJudy

Quote from: Florian
I wish i were, but i can actually demonstrate it. This is a real issue and i seriously dont get it. Neither do my audio buddys here. It makes no sense since by switching both channels out of phase they are now back in phase only with switcedh channels. And to compensate i switch the outputs on the CDP. I dont get it either.

How does switching the phase on both speakers require switching the left and right channels at the source to compensate? That doesn't make sense.

You missunderstood. I switch the phase and channels.

Like this picture might demonstrate.

JohnR · « **Reply #9 on:** 25 Jul 2005, 05:01 pm »

Maybe you got funky cables?

Florian · « **Reply #10 on:** 25 Jul 2005, 05:11 pm »

I dont know, but it makes absolutly no technical sense.

-Flo

audioengr · « **Reply #11 on:** 25 Jul 2005, 05:18 pm »

May be due to toe-in differences or distance to the listening position difference. Measure this with a tape-measure. Also, if the speakers are not symmetrical in the room, this can easily cause this.

BradJudy · « **Reply #12 on:** 25 Jul 2005, 05:18 pm »

So you changed three things at once, speaker connection phase at the amp, left/right channel swap at amp and left/right channel swap at the CD player. What happens if you try each of these item independently? Are you saying that only switching the phase and not switching the channels twice does not give the same results?

ScottMayo · « **Reply #13 on:** 25 Jul 2005, 06:11 pm »

Quote from: Florian

I do have a second question tough.

My Unison CD-Pplayer uses two tubes in the output stage. When playing classical music and some jazz the cd-player sounds wonderfull. But if i add Madonna to the mix the cd-player distrots horribly.-Flo

That's part of our Save The Listener initiative. Stereo systems are now designed to properly process good music, but distort market-driven, mass produced pop and rock. If you think what happened to Madonna was scary, don't risk a boy band or anything by young blond female singers of any sort. Not if you like your speakers, anyway. *noddle*

---
"Which video is next?"
"Britney Spears."
"Um... are you gonna turn the speakers on?"
"Why would I do that?"

thayerg · « **Reply #14 on:** 25 Jul 2005, 07:38 pm »

Could the Madonna disc's channels be out of phase? Some DACs let you swap phase.

John Casler · « **Reply #15 on:** 25 Jul 2005, 08:02 pm »

Quote from: thayerg

Could the Madonna disc's channels be out of phase? Some DACs let you swap phase.

If it is "The Immaculate Collection" it is recorded in Q-Sound, which will give you a 180 degree soundstage. This soundfeild is accomplished with specific "phase manipulation".

nathanm · « **Reply #16 on:** 25 Jul 2005, 09:04 pm »

That would make this thread extra hilarious if it was a Q-sound disc! Also, doesn't Florian have those ginormous panel speakers and aren't those types of speakers in general supposed to be extra-beamy, thus exaggerating the nifty Q-sound phase whatsits? Those discs are really a park-your-ass-in-the-chair and don't-ever-move kind of thing. I could see where the margin for subjective 'error' could be quite considerable in this situation.

Florian · « **Reply #17 on:** 25 Jul 2005, 09:55 pm »

Quote from: nathanm

That would make this thread extra hilarious if it was a Q-sound disc! Also, doesn't Florian have those ginormous panel speakers and aren't those types of speakers in general supposed to be extra-beamy, thus exaggerating the nifty Q-sound phase whatsits? Those discs are really a park-your-ass-in-the-chair and don't-ever-move kind of thing. I could see where the margin for subjective 'error' could be quite considerable in this situation.

Q-Sound works absolutly good on the Apogee. Our member Bruno_B was atmy house a few days ago and listend to a Q Sound disk and was puzzled

Florian · « **Reply #18 on:** 25 Jul 2005, 09:57 pm »

Quote from: John Casler

Quote from: thayerg
Could the Madonna disc's channels be out of phase? Some DACs let you swap phase.

If it is "The Immaculate Collection" it is recorded in Q-Sound, which will give you a 180 degree soundstage. This soundfeild is accomplished with specific "phase manipulation".

Its the Madonna- American Life disk. It distorts, and i mean really distorts. I talked to Unison Research and they told me to switch the tubes, so i ordered 2. Madonna sounds awsome on the Rega Planet 2000.

Florian · « **Reply #19 on:** 25 Jul 2005, 09:59 pm »

Quote from: thayerg

Could the Madonna disc's channels be out of phase? Some DACs let you swap phase.

Its not a phase issue. It apears that the CD-Player uses dual balanced triodes at the XLR output and ony single triode at the chinch output. Since the signal is worse in xlr mode this leads to believe that the tubes are going bye bye.

-Flo