tube amps

windwaves · « **on:** 23 Jun 2005, 01:04 pm »

Is substantial heat generation a problem common to most or all tube amps ?

I'd like to try tubes but as I read about them I very often come across this heat concern and I just don't know how important it is and how equipment dependent ... I would like some ideas, assuming it is possible to be so general (it rarely is I understand).

ww

woodsyi · « **Reply #1 on:** 23 Jun 2005, 01:24 pm »

WW,

Unless you have an enclosed equipment rack, I wouldn't worry about the heat. There are other issues concerning driver compatibility, different topology, tube rolling and servicability (reliable dealer/manufacturer/modder or DIY) that I would consider before heat. I have 26 tubes going every night and the basement is still the coolest room in the house in more ways than just the temperature!

PhilNYC · « **Reply #2 on:** 23 Jun 2005, 01:33 pm »

Yes, tube amps do generally get hot...you're basically looking at a cathode shooting electrons at a plate that generates a lot of heat. Whether it's a "problem" depends on what is problematic for you...in terms of keeping your gear healthy, good ventilation is all you really need to keep the heat from being problematic. For me, the issue is that my kids like to dance around in my listening room, and those little glowing tubes might be enticing enough for one of the kids to reach out and touch them...

DARTH AUDIO · « **Reply #3 on:** 23 Jun 2005, 01:41 pm »

Again, shouldn't be a problem if you have AC?? I have an all tube system with Jolida's JD3000 200 watt monoblocks(Based on the BIG 211 tubes). My dedicated listening room never gets warm. I like it cold throughout my house. Also, I live in Chicago and they are great to have in the winter time

If you love the sound that tubes produce you live with this issue.

Good Luck,

Gary

JoshK · « **Reply #4 on:** 23 Jun 2005, 01:53 pm »

When I was living in downtown manhattan in a small studio, my Cary V12i would heat my room by 10º easily. It was too much for my wife to tolerate so I sold it for something else. It all depends on lots of factors.

meilankev · « **Reply #5 on:** 23 Jun 2005, 02:50 pm »

ww,

I live in Tampa, and this means 5 months of serious heat. I have a couple of tube monoblocks (14 tubes per monoblock) in my Listening Room, and yes, they do generate a lot of heat.

They are well-ventilated, however, as they sit on the floor next to the speaker they drive. So, that is not an issue for me. This room is completely enclosed, 16' x 14.5' x 8', and shares a separate A/C unit with one other room (and a full bathroom). Like Josh, I would guess this Listening Room is easily 10 degrees hotter than the room next to it.

Note I keep my amps on 24 hours a day - 7 days a week (and Tampa is considered the lightning capital of the US). If I were to only power them up when I wanted to listen to them, the heat in this room would not be as much of an issue. But my opinion is that leaving them on extends the life of the output tubes (and this is a good thing). For example, my amps have now been on continuously for over 3 years, and the original tubes are still going strong.

For me, I would prefer leaving the amps on, and being forced to turn the A/C a little colder prior to a listening session (and the extra cost associated with that) versus turning the amps off between sessions which might lead to more frequent purchasing of output tubes. If my Listening Room was not on a separate A/C system from the main house, I might not take this path (as I'm a cheapskate

).

Kevin

windwaves · « **Reply #6 on:** 30 Jun 2005, 05:51 pm »

by the way I wanted to thank you all for your feedback. Seems very clear to me that heat is not an issue !!! great, I am just very very excited to go that route as well. Not so excited to do research on it, but nonetheless, it is a new "thing".

gio

jswallac · « **Reply #7 on:** 30 Jun 2005, 10:01 pm »

Not all tube amps generate lots of heat. Unless you really need a lot of brute force, an EL84-based amp like the Jolida 102B gives you the sweetness of tubes without the big heat generation. The downside is it only puts out about 20 watts per channel, so don't expect it to push a lot of bass out of power hungry speakers. But with the right speakers it sounds wonderful.

thayerg · « **Reply #8 on:** 4 Jul 2005, 06:33 pm »

Agreed. I have an el34 based integrated and heat isn't much of an issue. I installed the Pearl tube coolers from Parts Connection and they help to keep things cool--the whole amp eventually warms up but it takes probably three times longer than if the tubes were weren't cooled. The downside is that the cool glow of tubes pretty much hidden by them.

crossroadazn · « **Reply #9 on:** 4 Jul 2005, 09:35 pm »

What heat ? I'm running all tubes pre and mono blocks, out side temp. right now is 109 degree yes 109

JLM · « **Reply #10 on:** 5 Jul 2005, 04:24 pm »

Just ask yourself if the equivalent number of watts in light bulbs causes your room to heat up. IMO, unless your equipment is in an enclosed cabinet, this is the most exagerated issue in audio.

meilankev · « **Reply #11 on:** 6 Jul 2005, 07:13 pm »

ww,

You stated:

Quote

by the way I wanted to thank you all for your feedback. Seems very clear to me that heat is not an issue !!!

I want to repeat that my monoblocks generate a lot of heat - they absolutely heat up my Listening Room. This room is at least 10 degrees hotter than the other room it shares an A/C unit with (Central Air).

Based upon other posters, this isn't always the case. I would guess it depends on a number of factors - not the least of which is the amount of cubic feet need to be filled with sound.

So, the final answer is "it depends".

Kevin

zybar · « **Reply #12 on:** 7 Jul 2005, 02:34 am »

Quote from: JLM

Just ask yourself if the equivalent number of watts in light bulbs causes your room to heat up. IMO, unless your equipment is in an enclosed cabinet, this is the most exagerated issue in audio.

As others have pointed out, there are many factors and it really doesn't help the original poster to make broad sweeping statements saying it is an exaggerated issue.

I have owned some tube amps that had 14 tubes in each mono bloc andran in pure Class A (Kora). These ABSOLUTELY heated up the room an extra 10+ degrees. Another pair of tube mono blocs (Atma-Sphere) with roughly the same tube compliment did the same.

I have owned other tube amps by VAC, VTL, and Manley that didn't add nearly as much heat.

Of course, to a lesser extent the same can be said of ss amps. Amps by Krell, Plinius, Pass, and others can add noticeable heat to the room as well.

George

JLM · « **Reply #13 on:** 7 Jul 2005, 11:00 am »

Duplicate post (slow cable modem connection this morning).

JLM · « **Reply #14 on:** 7 Jul 2005, 11:01 am »

I've been in a bathroom that had about twenty five 60 watt incandescent light bulbs on three sides of the mirror and it instantly heated your face (I suppose it could make your make-up run). Thats nearly 1500 watts of heat (incandescents are very inefficient producers of light) three feet away in a small room. George's two examples would have a similar effect, but a 4 tube SET would be far less.

Let common sense be your guide.

Carlman · « **Reply #15 on:** 7 Jul 2005, 12:59 pm »

If you have a small-ish or even medium sized room (10x10 up to 14x17) tube gear or class A SS will heat up the room at least 5*F to as much as 15* or more... I've been over to a fellow AC member's house with a Cary tube amp... wearing shorts and a t-shirt is a prerequisite because it's so hot in that little room. There are others here on AC that have a 'winter amp' and a 'summer amp' for this reason.

The EL34's w/ lower wattage aren't bad... and in a medium to large room won't heat the room much... but in my small room, it made a 5* increase... which is very livable for me.

However, I've found Butler amps not to increase the room temp AT ALL. I think this is because the design runs the tube section at very low voltage... which does 2 things; lengthens the life of the tube and lowers the heat... I think it's considered a hybrid amp, though... I'm pretty sure that's my next amp... lots of power w/ finesse.

-C

JLM · « **Reply #16 on:** 7 Jul 2005, 09:49 pm »

Seems like opinions pretty well follow the climate patterns. Folks in the warmer south notice the extra heat more and those of us in the colder north don't seem to mind.

Dmason · « **Reply #17 on:** 7 Jul 2005, 10:31 pm »

My place can't deal with tube amps in the summer. They absolutely shed heat faster than my place can, depending on the design. It is all latitude-sensitive. A 25 watt PX-25 makes more heat than a Decware introduction to triode.

jeffreybehr · « **Reply #18 on:** 7 Jul 2005, 11:00 pm »

Quote from: crossroadazn

What heat ? I'm running all tubes pre and mono blocks, out side temp. right now is 109 degree yes 109

...and the airconditioner is running long and hard, too. I too live where it gets to 109, and mine works very well keeping my listening room cool, even with 2 big SET (805-powered) monoamps.

windwaves · « **Reply #19 on:** 8 Jul 2005, 06:02 am »

indeed, heat is not an issue for me and I can confortably come to this conclusion after your feedback, thank you.

It is fairly simple: the amps will go most likely in my leaving room, which is large and quite open and I do have a/c ! If not they will go in a basement, where temperature is not an issue either.

And by the way, if by any chance somebody in NYC has a tube set up and feels like showing it to me, hey please give me a buzz !

gio