[Russell Dawkins]

I am still interested to know if anyone can comment on the differences in presentation between the Druids and the Timepieces. I know the Druids measure worse as far as frequency response, although not as badly as the commonly circulated curve shows. Otherwise, for example in distortion, they seem similar, allowing for the difference in amplifier requirements. If the Druids are 101 dB measured singly, anechoic, then 40X as much power is needed for the Timepieces. If in pairs, anechoic, then 20X. If in pairs in room, then only 10X as much is needed for the Timepieces to compare. Then you have the bass extention consideration, the Timepieces being down - 2dB at 29 Hz, singly and anechoic - something like 23 Hz in pairs in room, suggesting a sub is optional, not necessary.
It would seem the Timepieces operate at similar low levels of distortion, even when absorbing 10 or so times the power.
Russell

[TV Man]

Hi all,

I'm very interested in these speakers...

The reviews all sound very positive, but they seem almost apologetic about some of the "audiophile" characteristics high end stereo items sometimes produce.

Reading whats been written it seems they are supremely musical. This is definitely something I want more of in my system.

I also like a big 3 dimensional soundstage with precise imaging... Unfortunately this characteristic hasn't been really commented on in detail, at least from what I've read.

So, do the Druid's project a nice 3D soundstage in addition to being musical champs?

Any comments are appreciated.

Thanks,

[miklorsmith]

I've had them in two different rooms and paid almost no attention to setup.  Why?  They sound so bloody good where I've plopped 'em down, I just quit.  Why do we seek imaging and soundstaging?  Because those things get you closer to the event.  Reproducing the scale and size of the venue is an important thing for most speakers because they do not accurately reproduce the scale and size of realistic dynamics in the music.  Once this crucial element is at the fore, you just forget about the other stuff.

Why do the Druid reviews relegate this to inferior status?  Because with them, you're in the event.  Whether you can tell where the sound comes from is immaterial.  You're there.  Acoustic trickery just doesn't matter.  Apologetic?  Not in the least.

As to the literal question:  In the two rooms I've had these speakers in, imaging/soundstaging have been fairly poor.  If you're looking for those qualities for some particular reason, check out the Gallo Ref. 3's.  They were my last pair and are incredible in that regard - their ability to disappear in a room is unparalleled in my experience.  But, I couldn't STAND them once I heard realistic dynamics.

Maybe someone who's spent more time tinkering with placement can chime in.

[jcoat007]

I really want to reserve my comments until they are fully broken-in, but so far I am getting excellent imaging and soundstaging.  Center images are rock solid and as they break-in the rest of the soundstage is becoming more defined.  I only have about 30 hours on them and they are still a little tight and restrained at this point, but I can already sense that when they open up they are going to totally disappear.  

As far as placement I just plopped them down where my other speakers were.  There is a very detailed set of setup instructions from ZU that I have not even followed yet.  Once broken-in I will set them up per their instructions.  

The thing that everyone seems to talk about with these is dynamics and tonal accuracy.  I could not agree more.  You get some hard pounding drums and it's like I'm being kicked in the chest.  The power they convey is just off the chart.  And yet, when the recording is more mellow and intimate, the Druids convey that as well.

That's all for now.  I will report more when I get back into town.

[jcoat007]

OK, I'm back and I think I have around 250 hours on the Druids at this point.  I will simply cut-to-the-chase and tell you that I am keeping these speakers.  

The main reasons that I like them are:

1) They play very loud and very clean on absolutely each and every type of music I throw at them.  They just do not seem to care what it is that they are playing.  Rock, jazz, classical, it doesn’t matter.  Small intimate settings or large scale and bombastic, it makes no difference to the Druids.

2) Their presentation is full with lots of texture, but no hint of anything that is out of place.  They are completely even-keeled, with no part of the musical spectrum calling attention to itself.  

3)  Imaging is spooky good, with rock solid placement of the performers in a soundstage that varies by recording.  I have some pieces where the width and depth just seem to go through the walls of the room, and others where it is much more intimate.  

4)  The Druids come to life at very low volumes.  My listening room is right between my kid’s rooms and this is a very important aspect for me.  I can now listen at night, and get the full impact of the performance without having to crank it up.  On the other hand if I want to crank them up I can do so to ear splitting levels.  

5)  Setup is very easy.

5)  They look cool.  This might be the least important to some people, but I have to admit that I really like the way they look.  

I have had my current speakers (Vandersteen 3A Sigs) for more than 3 years.  Over that time I have replaced or substantially upgraded each piece of my system, except for speakers.   When I had the Vandy's in a different room, in a different house, they had a magic that I just have not been able to re-create in my current listening room.  I used to get very good imaging and a very large cohesive sound from top-to-bottom.  For some reason in my current room, I just cannot find that magic again.  

Just recently I actually went back and read a review of the 3A Sigs from TAS issue 122, http://www.avguide.com/servlet/com.absolutemultimedia.servlets.DownloadReviewPDF/REVIEW_418.pdf?download=yes and the reviewer was having the exact same problem that I was having.  He just could not get them to sound right in his room.  He went back to the very well-written manual and followed the instructions to a "T".  With enough tilt-back and proper placement and toe-in, he finally got them to sound "right".  Within a very narrow sweet-spot, he found that they sounded very good.  I have experienced this, but not in my current room.  

I have tried each and every tilt-back shim that has been provided.  I have read and re-read the manual and followed all the instructions.  I have moved them around so many times and in so many ways that quite frankly I am tired of it.  

When I put the Druids into play, I just plopped them down and let them run.  After a good 200 hours, I carefully set them up per the ZU instructions and a technique that I learned to line them up perfectly with the listening position.  (I think the guys at 8th nerve published this method).  Anyway, after about 20 minutes I had them dialed-in and sounding great.  

I should mention that during the break-in period I did not use my subs and found these speakers to be very enjoyable by themselves.  However, I am a bass nut and I have integrated my dual Vandersteen subs into the mix and this combo sounds great.  It takes some time to dial them in, but I think I have it nailed at this point.  

One thing that I have found to be very interesting is the way my listening habits have changed since putting the Druids into play.  Prior to the Druids I was mainly listening to small combo jazz and small classical ensembles.  Lots of vocals and lighter fair.  Now, this is a list of the last 30 or so things I have listened to:

311
Audioslave
Mahler
Steely Dan
Holly Cole
AC/DC
Talking Heads
Linkin Park
Gwen Stefani
Beethoven
Alison Krauss + Union Station
Miles Davis
Saint-Saens
Jack Johnson
WILCO
Tchaikovsky
Ben Folds
Van Halen
Rachmaninoff
Led Zeppelin
Chevelle
Bach
Trapt
Foo Fighters
Queens of the Stone Age
Brahms
Stevie Ray Vaughn
Schubert
The White Stripes
Radiohead
Nirvana
Green Day
Garbage
Cake
A Perfect Circle

And yes, Diana Krall, Norah Jones and Patricia Barber.  

I would hardly characterize the above list as “lighter fair” although there is some of that sprinkled around.  The Druids respond to each and every type of music without ever breaking a sweat.  And if you want loud, I mean real loud, these can do that too.  

One other thing that I should mention is that in the past three years I have only invited two people to listen to my system.  I have had five people over in the past five days.  That, my friends, says more than this entire review, IMHO.  

Bottom-line, these speakers are staying and my system is much more enjoyable to me.

Steve

[miklorsmith]

Nice review!  Speakers are so personal, it's great that you found a "mate".

[ton1313]

I just wanted to chime in on he soundstage & imaging on the Zu speakers, both the Druids & the Definitions. I have heard from them on numerous occasions, perfect center imaging & also a more diffused center image. Different recording engineers have different styles/standards of mastering their music. Listen to a few of your favorite CD's & I think you will find some that have these different recording styles. I feel that they have the detail and dynamics to fully reveal the actual recording with no veil.

Soundstage is absolutely huge!

All in all, they are effortless and non-fatiguing to listen to.  

[UncleStu]

Steve,

Can you elaborate on the imaging of your Driuds?  Specifically, do they dissappear?  I, too, appreciate realistic dynamics, but I find the ability of the speaker to dissappear to be crucial as well.  Face it, I want everything   !

The reason I ask is, frankly, that I'm skeptical of such a large driver handling the high frequencies without beaming.  Seems like an unavoidable design constraint to me.  I've never heard a single driver system, but I always assumed that those that liked them simply were not bothered by beaming (that is, that the benefit of no crossover was worth it to them).  Is this a faulty assumption on my part?

I'd really like to hear these things.  I may be able to make the Easton demo, but the 16th is my wife's birthday, so it's very iffy.  Does Zu offer a trial period?

Thanks.

Paul Ebert

[madders]

Just trying to get my head around suitable applification for these speakers.

I am demoing a pair of Druids at the weekend. If I like what I hear, my plan is to get 2 pairs of Druids and a single Tone for use in a 5.1 system along with my Velodyne HGS18 sub.

My question is, can anyone recommend a 5 channel solid state amp that will work well with these speakers? My current amp for 2 channel duties is a Bryston 4B SST, but I'm guessing that will be a little OTT and as I'll need to get 3 more channels of amplification, I might as well get a 5 channel amp that will match well. My preamp/processor is an EAD Theatermaster8800Pro.

Many thanks.

[213Cobra]

Paul,

Regarding the Druids and ability to "disappear" --

In a large room in fact Druids will project a soundstage such that precisely locating the speaker from sound alone will be chancey. They do not vanish so completely as, say, a Gallo system or Audio Physic Virgos, but they do not beam to the point of distraction, and cabinet resonance is an irrelevancy. You're not hearing the box. The Druids are among a tiny population of dynamic speakers that have the focused believability of an original Quad, but projected to a considerably more practical sweet spot. A pair of Druids properly located will have a sweet spot about the width of 3 people seated, maintaining normal interpersonal distance. Outside of that window, image quality and fidelity gracefully taper. At no point around the room does convincing sound fall off a cliff.

The 10" driver's beaming is very much reduced over the course of a 200 - 300 break-in period and isn't a problem, while the rewards are large.

Phil

[mihilli]

I'll chime in here, albeit perhaps not so eloquently as some of the previous reviewers.

I've probably got about 400 hours on a pair of Druids now.  I agree totally regarding setup, once they're broken in, it's damn easy to get them sounding good.  Remember, ONCE they're broken in.  

When I first got them, they only had about 50 hours on them and I had some serious doubts.  Bass was not there and then as it started to appear, was pretty flabby.  I did hear some beaming, only occasionally, but enough to put me off as it's one of those traits that drives me up the wall.

Now they're broken in, all the nasties have disapeared.  I believe they are superb speakers and they compete well above their pricing level.  Imaging is very good, dynamics are incredible, and reiterating what's already been said they reproduce music.  I've spent alot more time listening to music in the last few weeks simply because I've enjoyed it much more.

The other issue which has been raised which really can't be stressed enough is how alive the Druids are at low volume levels.  It's pretty astounding to get the detail and the dynamics at volume levels which with most speakers are just background noise.

FWIW, I'm a musician and some of the people I play with have heard the Druids now that they're broken in.  They have paid the ultimate compliment, saying they sound as close to live music as any system they've heard (in they're/our limited exposure to quality hifi).

And lastly, because I am so enamored with the Druids, I decided to go the distance and I've ordered a pair of Definitions (gulp $9K!!).  But I figure this is a system I will be keeping for some time.  The problem I am having now, as I await the completion of my Definitions, is that the Druids are sounding so good I'm wondering if I really need to spend the additional cash on the Definitions!

So, if you can, I highly recommend having a listen to the Druids, give them a chance to bloom (break in) and I suspect if you like listening to music as opposed to gear, you'll fall in love.

[miklorsmith]

Re:  Def's vs. Druids - if you have the scratch, it is unequivocally worth it.

1.  The presence region is incredible and the aural illusion is downright spooky

2.  They are more effortless at all frequencies and playback levels

3.  Treble is more refined and ethereal

4.  8 powered 10" drivers makes for very, very nice bass.

5.  They disappear better

And, the sum is much more than the parts.  All that said, the Druids kick monster tail.  They are truly excellent, regardless of comparisons with others.

I think the Def's will require more break-in time and volume.  Those 7 drivers make HUGE volume at the excursions needed to break the drivers in.

[madders]

Do Zu offer a "break in" service so the drivers can be well broken in before leaving the factory?

[miklorsmith]

They break in the Def's for you at the factory on their nickel.  They'll do it for the Druids and Tones too, for a nominal fee.

[Boyhowdy]

They break in the Def's for you at the factory on their nickel.  They'll do it for the Druids and Tones too, for a nominal fee.

They do indeed, but it's not a complete break in.  I've had my defs now for a couple of weeks and Zu put 75-100 hrs on them.  Even so, out of the box, they were a little rough.  Iv'e managed to put a little over 100 hrs on them so far, and they are starting to sound really good, or maybe that should be really, really good.  At this point it is readily apparent to me I will not be returning them.  Will post further impressions later.

Matt

[madders]

Thanks for the replies guys. I'm looking forward to hearing the Druids this weekend!

[UncleStu]

mihilli,

You've got a pm.

Paul Ebert

[madders]

Well, I heard the Druids today and I have to say I was VERY impressed!! Looks like I'll be placing my order very soon. Just got to narrow down a list of  5 channel amps that would match these speakers perfectly. Any suggestions? (budget up to $4,000 but must be able to work on UK voltage. I like the idea of the "First Watt" amps but I guess they're just US voltage only?)

Thanks,
Steve

[NealH]

"madders", how about a brief comment or two on the character of sound that you heard.  In particular, did you notice any beaming at all?  And, how was the low end - tight, loose, deep, etc?

Why are you considering the "First Watt" amplifier?  Does this speaker need a constant current amp to provide a boost to the low end (point of maximum impedance due to it's tuning)?  

I am also intrigued by the Zu speakers.  Wish there was a pair nearby to audition.  I am tempted to take them up on their trial offer - their 60-day money back guarantee is a testament to their conviction and confidence in customer satisfaction.

[kck]

If I may request a quick detour (but not complete hijack) here, could somebody kindly give this audio-vocab-challenged fella a quick-and-dirty on what 'beaming' is?