[Rob Babcock]

Really? You don't like bottles in the mix at all? Then, you're not a fan of The Beatles, Cream, Led Zeppelin, The Rolling Stones...

...because I assure you all these bands had "bottles in the mix" in both their live amplification and in their studio mixing boards and amplification.

You're not a fan of Miles, Coltrane...these guys surely had bottles in the mix during the 50s and 60s.

You're missing something, tvad4- you're discussing the music, not the sound.  You have to understand that's two separate issues.  BTW, most of those old recordings sound pretty crappy to me, too.  But I like much of the music.

[Rob Babcock]

WELL, first off...I was not the one that said I didn't like tubes in the chain.     Secondly, why the hell can you not make a distinction between the sound/recording and the music?  I have some fantastic music that groans under the weight of horrible sound quality.  For instance, I really like Liz Phair's Whip Smart, but it sounds fucking dreadful.  So, the music = .  The recording =   .  Understand?

So you see, you really can dislike a certain recording method while liking that artists music.  Music is one thing, and it transcends other issues.  Another example- a lot of people really liked Metallica's music but turned on them over Lar's attempts to shut Napster down.  I think he's a hypocritical bastard, but that doesn't change the fact that their first three albums were brilliant.  Recording methodology is like that- it's irrelevant to whether or not one likes the music on an artistic level.

[TheChairGuy]

tvad4,

I never said I was a fan of old Beach Boys music...it's okay stuff, doesn't get my juices flowing much, but it's easy to listen to on the FM of my car.

I don't like a lot of older recorded music...I never thought that it was, or could be, tube equipment as the cause.  But, that may be the common link between a lot of them.  

'Smile' has interesting arrangements, grand melodies, but Brian Wilson's voice sounds muddled and weak.  I rarely listen to the lyrics, I listen for the feeling in music, so I can't comment on what a poet he might be.  On balance, it makes for an interesting listen....one that , for me, probably could have been improved by recording on modern, solid state recording equipment.  It's mere speculation on my part, but my history with tube gear in the recording (when known) or playback chain has been this.

[TheChairGuy]

Hey, I was just reading on page 157 in the latest Music Direct catalog that the vocals in 'Smile' was were captured at Sunset Sound using a period tube console.  

I'm no fan of tubes (yech!) of any sort in the recording or playback chain, that could significantly bias my opinion of this CD.  fyi.  Those of you that like your bottles, may find this album much more appealling.  

Nonetheless, I'm still groovin' to it...tho I think I'd be bopping a bit more to it  recorded in high quality, simply miked and not overprocessed, in SS.

C'est la vie.

Anyway, I don't understand how a fan of the Beach Boys, a band that recorded in the 60s and one that therefore used tubes in the recording studio, can object to Brian Wilson utilizing tubes in the recording of Smile. That statement makes no sense to me.

What statement are you referring to?.....I never said I was a Beach Boy fan or criticized Brian Wilson for using them.  I was only stating why I might be more critical of 'Smile' it than many might be.

[Rob Babcock]

Well, to change the subject back to the original topic...   I picked up Smile today and am listening right now.  It's definately fascinating- sort of like finding a paper you were writing 20 years ago in college and deciding to finish it.  Certainly it's very reminiscent of the 'Boys, as you'd expect, although very "experimental" compared to their poppier hits.  Dated?  Absolutely, but not in a bad way.  I've always loved the Beach Boys vintage music , and I like them no less now.  Smile may sound anachronistic now, but I'd choose it over the White Stripes or the Black Eyed Peas or most of the other crap that the critics are going gaga over nowadays.

[R_burke]

I still strongly suggest picking up a DVD copy of the Showtime special (available on E-Bay) for an interest ...

I just got an e-mail from the Brian Wilson Smile website that says a two DVD set is now available.  One DVD is the making of Smile and the other is a live taping of a Smile performance.  Is this what you were referring to?