[samuel6363]

Hello Audiophiles!

I'm curious to know what your experience has been with a 3D holographic soundstage. Let me know what speakers and amplification you used to get the most holographic experience. Also, what is your favorite song you use to demonstrate an immersive soundstage.

Looking forward to your responses!

Thanks.

[Solarflares]

My 4BSST Bryston amp was fed from a Motu M4 soundcard through a passive preamp.
Using NVA LS5 speaker cables bi-wired, and prototype Derivative2+ silver-composite signal cables.
I sold these monsters on after 5 months, but the imaging and depth was off the scale.
(I’ve now changed to the incredible NVA LS6 cables for woofers, and LS5 for tweeters, and use Statement NVA TIS interconnects with a Bryston BP6 preamp).



A friend had these beauties in a small living room, fed with a Yamaha 100Wpower amp and an Audiolab 8000 preamp, using very basic cables. Even with that ‘lowly’ gear, they imaged very well. I’d love to have heard them with my current Bryston gear.  Incredible space machines, both the 15 and the 215.
As an example, with these set 8ft apart in two alcoves against the wall, either side of a small fireplace - the snare-drum on “A Kind of Blue” is about 10ft back, 2ft up, and 2ft right of centre, wherever that is.



This is my current gear. Mk1 System 12 DMT’s.
A bit more manageable than the space-hogging 15’s in a small living room. I sit 7ft away, and the speakers are 6ft apart. The imaging is still huge!!

[Solarflares]

In the late 80’s I experimented with an Ambient setup at home.
A third cheap full-range speaker was positioned on the floor 6ft behind my chair. Pointing up at 45 degrees - connected to the red terminals of each amp channel.
I can’t describe the vastness of space this creates, but I’ve experienced Jimi Hendrix’s guitar on “If Six Was Nine” start in one corner of the room, 8ft behind the right speaker, and fly right through my head to the opposite corner 8ft behind me, and back again!  You can only imagine what the gyrational panning of  “Gypsy Eyes” sounds like.
I myself then produced a lot of my own ambient guitar music - utilising lots of panning to create that through the head thing.  But it was a trip I eventually snapped out of, as the amp got a bit hot!
 There are several Brian Eno recordings done in Ambient, that sound incredibly spacial, even in conventional stereo. I guess Daniel Lanois would be another contender.

[gils]

Hello,
The best soundstage I've had is with JBL 4313 speakers, very analytical with little masking.

With the planar baffle, it's different; the rear wave tends to blur the soundstage in general. The U-Frame would be preferable with rear damping of the speaker in the low-mid/midrange frequencies.

Then, it's a matter of taste; there's no particular music to highlight this effect; the damping of the listening room will remain very important.

Speakers are JBL 2279H + Fane 12-250TC and Beyma SMC 1050/NS

FC 250/1600  // power blameless class B and and kaneda K 209 class AB

This is a recording with two Behringer C2 mics placed just behind me.

https://youtu.be/H-JwsNjuGjs

Sincerely,

[Solarflares]

Then, it's a matter of taste; there's no particular music to highlight this effect; the damping of the listening room will remain important.

If a producer has the knowledge and vision, then it’s all to do with how you mic, and how you EQ and pan the mid-range and presence for each individual track - together with a small amount of reverb, panned away from the source.
Joe Meek’s 50’s mic-levelling was the best in the industry. Those mono recordings are spacious and they image in stereo, due to the individual frequency ranges, and EQ settings.
My Tannoys will image like crazy, are designed to be soffit-mounted where applicable, and will give incredible space and depth - even in an anechoic chamber, pushed up against a wall, or in the wall. Room reflections are but a small inconvenience with speakers like this, until you really start pushing them with 300W a side. But so long as those reflections reach you less than 6 milliseconds after the fundamental, your brain can deal with it.
With quality speakers like Tannoy, a carpeted floor, some curtains over the window, and a couple of soft chairs goes a long way.
You ‘tweakers’ and ‘baffle-bodgers’ are making it so hard for yourselves.

[FullRangeMan]

This is the 1982 Brian Eno system mentioned above.
https://scannerdot.com/how-brian-enos-on-land-changed-my-world/

[toocool4]

A three dimensional holographic soundstage or image is achievable with any reasonably competent audio system. What really matters is having a decent setup and, importantly, ensuring the recording contains that spatial information to begin with. If the recording doesn’t capture it, no amount of equipment or tweaking will bring it out.

Assuming the recording is good and your gear is up to the task, the key is in taking the time to properly set everything up. And finally, don’t overlook your room it needs to work with you, not against you.

[Solarflares]

This is the 1982 Brian Eno system mentioned above.

Many thanks FullRangeMan. And a great article.
The premise is that the rear speaker of an ambient system outputs both the Sum and the Difference of both front channels.

Another long forgotten technique was developed in the mid-70’s, and was called the “Artificial Head System”.
Here, they modelled a human head from Perspex, complete with life-like ears. A microphone was placed inside each ear, corresponding to the natural position of the human ear-drum.
This was probably the most successful ‘3D’ imaging example of the last 100 years.
One musical project/artist that extensively used this technology was Tangerine Dream’s Edgar Froese, with his “Aqua” album. Listening to the record on headphones - your can clearly hear planes flying overhead, and cars way down in the street below. It was pretty incredible.
Once again, like the ambient recordings, hearing an Artificial Head record through conventional stereo speakers still gave rise to some interesting spacial experiences, but through a good set of cans, it’s awesome.

Have a listen to this on your favourite headphones….
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNWF50faO0s

Only half the album (possibly side two) is recorded using the Artificial Head System.

[Solarflares]

A three dimensional holographic soundstage or image is achievable with any reasonably competent audio system. What really matters is having a decent setup and, importantly, ensuring the recording contains that spatial information to begin with. If the recording doesn’t capture it, no amount of equipment or tweaking will bring it out.

Assuming the recording is good and your gear is up to the task, the key is in taking the time to properly set everything up. And finally, don’t overlook your room it needs to work with you, not against you.

All true, barring happy accidents of course.
I like to think of it sometimes as an open window.
With much music, especially modernist pop-junk, and poorly devised system setups - the info is all fighting to be heard, and often the result is a succession of instruments ‘paraded’ in front of your window, like the Generation Game.  Listen for that on your gear, and try to eradicate it, as it’s very tiring and claustrophobic.
A great, intelligent mix through a reasonable setup, and you begin to realise that some of those instruments are hanging back from the window a bit.
A great stereo with a superb, intelligent, spatially-sympathetic mix, and it’s like you are standing right in front of that open window, and get the sensation of real space outside. The instruments no longer ‘parade’, but inhabit their own little dimension.
With both Ambient and the Artificial Head System - it’s more like climbing out of the window and joining the fun.

[opnly bafld]

The best soundstage I've had is with JBL 4313 speakers, very analytical with little masking.

With the planar baffle, it's different; the rear wave tends to blur the soundstage in general. The U-Frame would be preferable with rear damping of the speaker in the low-mid/midrange frequencies.

Completely disagree with this as I have heard multiple setups using OB/dipole speakers with excellent soundstage and imaging.

If very deep U frame requires damping to work correctly, I (flat) and H baffles do not.

[Solarflares]

Thanks for enlightening us with your knowledge 
Now that we know your position please feel free to post away in the "enclosures" circle, don't fret too much if some choose to stay here. 

This is a 3D holographic thread.
Not a circle-jerk for DIY speakers, and the badly-needed solutions to mitigate the problems that always arise - which all too often involves stuffing pillows everywhere.
Tannoy DMT 12’s and above are in the top of any list, including the 3D holographic list.  Only a moron would argue otherwise.  I offer my observations to remind people of how it’s done properly, as opposed to just pissing about in your shed, and claiming a unworthily-lofty enclave on an audio forum website that is staunchly your own.
The second you mount a speaker chassis on a baffle - it becomes an ‘Enclosure’, so don’t kid yourself.


Of course, if you have pets, then there is perhaps a neat and thrifty dual-purpose aspect to consider with your concoctions…
Check out the damping on this little beauty.

[Early B.]

Any well-designed speaker in a decent room with decent components should be holographic because that's what good music sounds like. 

[Solarflares]

Plenty of open baffle/dipole speakers are available to buy plug and play.

Yeah, and there’s plenty of cheap pillows at Walmart too.
So what?

[I.Greyhound Fan]

I have a pair of Arendal 1528 speakers and they have a huge sound stage paired with my Mark Levinson 5805 integrated amp.
 I reviewed the Van Alstine DVA dac/preamp with my Magnepan 1.6's and my Pass X250 amp and BAT VK51SE preamp and the sound was truly holographic.  That DAC is fabulous.   

[Zuman]

The older I get (and the more experience I accrue as an audiophile) the more I'm aware of the gestalt necessary to achieve good sound - including holographic imaging.
40 years ago I had a pair of Martin Logan CLS speakers...electrostatics and cutting-edge by anyone's definition. Powered by an Aragon 4004 (remember?) and supplemented by Kinergetics subs, they were sublimely transparent and had incredibly holographic sound...as long as you were seated within a three-square foot area and didn't budge. The MLs were dipole open-baffles.
Today I have a pair of Von Schweikert Endeavor SEs (traditional three-way boxes at a casual glance), powered by a Modwright KWH 225i hybrid integrated amp, with much better analog and digital front-ends. They are as transparent and even more holographic, and there is no limited sweet spot. On many recordings I can actually hear a musical effect pass behind me, and the effect is as clear from either of the two outboard seats on my listening sofa as from the center seat.
The Von Schweikerts have a rear-mounted ambiance ribbon tweeter. They also feature VSA's crossover technology designed to recreate the space and depth heard in the concert hall when the spaced-omni method of recording is used.
I am confident that there are many factors involved in achieving holographic sound, and we should be careful about dismissing any potential contributing factor.

[kmmd]

I am confident that there are many factors involved in achieving holographic sound, and we should be careful about dismissing any potential contributing factor.

This is very true.  My previous all Maggie system was holographic.  My current system is just ridiculous. 

[Craig Young]

This experience occurred around 1975, I was in a friends store which was by appointment only and the owner had me sit and listen to screen speakers. It took a little time while he guided my ears to the right location. This was a unique experience for me in that the music was playing in my head and when I told my 2 friends about this crazy feeling going on in my head the owner nodded yes and my other friend got to experience this feeling also.

[mr_bill]

Talking 3D Holography

Back in the day, I heard a Audio Physic Caldera system set up right that blew my mind.
The innersound Kaya (with my head in just the right vice sweet spot) was also mind blowing.

[AllanS]

Any well-designed speaker in a decent room with decent components should be holographic because that's what good music sounds like.

^^