Thanks for your very long post, and posting it here for public consumption. Also, thanks for reading some of the very lengthy rhetoric on this forum. There are many good snippets of information, but sorting through this for information that is useful to YOU is often very time consuming.
I will use some of your quotes for clarity.
I just discovered this project because I'm curently contemplating the idea of changing my 15y old NHT 1.3/1.1 speakers!
Subjectively bettering these speakers will be VERY easy. There are many kits/projects that will perform better. You might consider some of the other projects at
www.murphyblaster.com or something from GR-Research.com . If cost is a factor, Danny has the market basically cornered on economical speakers that will product sonic quality on par with $800 - $1200 commercial speakers IMO .
It seems like most information on the 1801 is concentrated on the audiocircle forum, might be a good idea to go on other forums.
I have thought of this. It's a good idea, but... the TIME... Whew! Keeping track of information in several different forums is simply too much for me. In years past I spent some time at audioasylum and some colorful exchange with Brian Cheney, but this was a long time ago. I actually like the organization of this forum because it enables folks to search and add to older threads. The "archived" threads in many other forums are frozen.
Also, why not create a review section right on the ellisaudio site and directly post customer comments you receive by email after asking them if they agree...
This is probably a good idea, but it's overdone by others. Also, this allows ME the option of editing/changing feedback input. I really encourage folks to post their comments at
www.audioreview.com in a very candid fashion that is not editable by me. I think a smart outsider/newcomer to EllisAudio realizes the difference between unbiased and "colored" information. Further, this year I started the customer community. I think this is a grand idea, as it allows newcomers to view the setup for others, and potentially email them for more specifics. It has actually enlightened me somewhat because several of my customers have experience with gear that I find interesting. This year it seems audioreview and the customer community are finding some degree of greater success. I think my appeal helped.
- Second, one thing I find very difficult in the DIY business is trying to know, have and idea, how a speaker will sound.
Yep, you have to dig through a bunch of comments at audioreview to find a few comparisons with commercial speakers. I recall the B&W Signature 800 and the Proac 3.8, but... don't remember others. I am really not sure why this happens. I do know that several of my customers have replaced Paradigm speakers in the $2k-$3k zone, but don't recall other specific displacements.
This is indeed a strange dynamic. There are a few explanations. Some of these are going to sound grandiose, but I don't know how to avoid this subjective expression.
1. Folks are so darn happy with their 1801s they have no need/desire to take their speakers to a hifi shop for comparison. Certainly I have lived in Omaha for about 2 years and haven't entered any of the local hifi shops. I objectively understand much of hifi "guts", and have no reason to listen to inferior products. I really don't want to waste my time.
2. Folks are considerate of salesmen in hifi shops and don't want to waste their time. Certainly I realize it does the hifi shop little/no good knowing that some local DIY guy builds a product for $1500 that sounds better than their products costing 3-5x $. I have no need to smear their noses in this discrepancy, and we all understand the source of the discrepance. It's rooted in Dave Ellis's brick and mortar markup (i.e. nil) and Dave Ellis's shop fees (i.e. nil)
.
On a side note... I must admit that my bride occasionally gives me "the look" when we discuss my business. I generally smile during this discussion. She doesn't. Occasionally I remind my wife that it could be worse. I could golf and drink beer. And, even thought my wife will occasionally express some disdain about my business/hobby, she is much more appreciative, and always comments about the changes to our home system.
- Last thing, the 1801 is very interesting for me but I need a DIY design that will provide the opportunity to build 5 identically voiced speakers for a HT setup with the main as the priority.
I have somewhat mixed feelings about this. I personally think the 1801 is gross overkill for HT. The MBOW1 is modest overkill IMO. However, recently Jim Salk
www.salksound.com constructed a setup using 1801s all around for a customer overseas (Australia?). Jim said he was skeptical too and discouraged this expense for the customer during the onset of this discussion. At the end of the project Jim setup the speakers and dialed them in. Jim said the setup sounded extremely good.
I can convey the 1801 is viable in 16.5 liters sealed. I have done this and it worked okay, but I preferred the ported bass and the larger @22 liter cabinet. However, in a bookshelf this won't really work due to the port location. A sealed setup is better.
If budget is a real concern, I recommend you build MBOW1 speakers all around. If budget is a partial concern, I recommend you build 2x 1801 and 3x MBOW1. The voicing and sound quality are surprisingly similar. If budget is not a concern, buid 5x 1801 with a pair of SCC300 subwoofers in the front corners.
However, in all of this, I recommend you build a pair of 1801 speakers then listen to them for HT. I have done this for years and really enjoy this. The imaging is quite good.
Also, I'm not sure the current 1801 cabinet is something that will appeal to the masses. I think it would probably be more appealing if it was built on a small tower base.
Please read here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=7577Where is home for you? Will you be using a projector? And, what flavor source gear will be used?
Whew, that was long. Maybe next time a chat via telephone would be better. Hopefully I addressed all of your concerns.
