DIY Balanced Power Conditioner for the GK-1

TimS · « **on:** 22 May 2005, 08:19 pm »

There's an interesting post in the "The Lab" about building a DIY Balanced Power Conditioner" which is getting rave reviews - see
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=18441&highlight=
I'm interested in using this for the GK-1 here in Australia. Does anyone know if this design is valid for a 230-240 volt mains systems or do we already have a balanced mains supply?

Occam · « **Reply #1 on:** 22 May 2005, 10:57 pm »

The design is quite applicable, exactly as shown, for mains at 220-240v. The only difference is that the dual winding primary transformers do not require that the VA ratings be halved for their actual use at their intended voltage. Australia's mains is are not balanced. You have a 'Hot', 'Neutral' and 'Ground' exactly as in the States, although the nomenclature may be different, and your 'Hot' voltage is appoximately double ours.
As to whether you'll experience those same benefits as those reported Stateside, dunno. After all, your electrons do spin in the opposite direction

. I don't know how polluted and crappy your electic power grid is. If you send me a plane ticket, I'll be happy to bring you a working Felicia, absolutely gratis.
In the States, our NEC (national electrical codes) do provide for balanced power for audiovisual equipment. I don't know if the Austalian electrical codes allow for this.

AKSA · « **Reply #2 on:** 23 May 2005, 12:17 am »

Thanks Paul,

Great offer.......!!

Tim,

There is some anecdotal evidence that the benefits of mains conditioners are more pronounced in the States than here.

I'm not sure why this should be; could be the lesser currents, might be our mains is cleaner, etc. However, since privatisation of our mains grids around this fair country, the owners of these utilities (of which Texas Utilities is one, guys!) have maximised their profits by scimping on mains distribution maintenance, and by configuring their generators for maximum output for minimum coal input.

These approaches from the former approach have generated saturation - clipping - of the waveform, and departures from the normal sinusoidal profile. This has greatly increased higher order artefacts into the waveform, and some of these get past the filter capsacitors in our amps and preamps where they directly power the amp modules.

Certainly I believe this situation will get worse as shareholders bay for more ROI. The answer definitely is mains conditioning, and since the earth could be pretty noisy, it makes good sense to use a balanced line, which as far as I'm aware is quite acceptable in Australia provided all transformers meet the insulation specs (typically around 4000Vac).

That said, I've heard one conditioner on an AKSA 55W and it sounded a little constrained. This clearly comes back to the source impedance of the conditioner, so it can't be said this would be true for all of them. Make it big enough (at least 500VA and preferably more) and it should be fine.

Cheers,

Hugh

Occam · « **Reply #3 on:** 23 May 2005, 02:34 am »

Hey Hugh,

Until I've done my own verification, I'm not considering recomending Felicia for poweramps. My initial attempt will use 2 13lb double copper shielded (both interwinding and external) EI cored per channel of my 55.
We've had exceptional results with a Felicia and a Modwright 9se tube preamp, as well a Baby Sophia 10wpc PP Class A tube integrated. I'd think the the GK-1 (I could be more definite if I'd recieved mine

) would similarly have a constant power draw, and could easily be powered by a Felica with 2 100va transformers, or possibly 50VA???
I don't know what the surplus market looks like in Australia, and I can't tell if the dual bobbin transformers from Dick Smith have dual winding primaries which would allow for balanced operation. RS certainly has appropriate transformers, but I'm awfully cheap.
I'd really like some feedback from a builder with 220-240v AC mains.

Felicitations,
Paul

andyr · « **Reply #4 on:** 23 May 2005, 07:48 am »

Quote from: Occam

... I'd really like some feedback from a builder with 220-240v AC mains. ...

Paul, I think kyrill posted a while ago about the advantages of a balanced power conditioner ... and he's in Holland, on 240v mains.

Regards,

Andy

Occam · « **Reply #5 on:** 23 May 2005, 12:27 pm »

Andy - did a search and found it.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=16787.msg147522#147522&highlight=balanced#147522

Thanks,
Paul

andyr · « **Reply #6 on:** 23 May 2005, 12:36 pm »

Quote from: Occam

Andy - did a search and found it.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=16787.msg147522#147522&highlight=balanced#147522

Thanks,
Paul

That's good, Paul,

I asume that means a Felicia would be good for a GK-1 (and other source components) in Oz too?? (It's a bit beyond my knowledge-base!

)

Regards,

Andy

Occam · « **Reply #7 on:** 23 May 2005, 02:14 pm »

Well... my advise is worth exactly what you're paying for it.

We're not going to know until someone tries it. Your maximun current draws are going to be half that of components in the States.
What was that line from Benny Hill about 'ASS/U/ME'?

Builder Brad · « **Reply #8 on:** 23 May 2005, 05:00 pm »

Hello Everybody,

I have built several "dual stage" mains filters as detailed on the following site.

http://www.triode-systems.com/index.htm

Because of the low cost this has got to be worth a try esp. when you consider that many of the high end mains filter manufacturers use less components that proposed in the dual stage as above.

I imediately noticed an improvement from LF through to treble and beyond. Another plus point is that there was an improvement on my AV system which was already pretty good - 50" Pioneer HDMI plasma and Pioneer DV 868 player. Even crappy satelite broadcasts look good now.

Brad

RonR · « **Reply #9 on:** 23 May 2005, 09:08 pm »

Hi Brad,

I ordered the parts for some of the 'triode' dual stage filters last week, before I noticed this thread. It's nice to know that a fellow aksaphile has seen improvements with this design, but frustrating that a few days later, a possibly better solution emerges!

I'd be most interested to hear how you're using the filters, and how they break in over the next few weeks.

Cheers,

Ron.

Occam · « **Reply #10 on:** 23 May 2005, 10:12 pm »

Ron - I guess you'll have to spend sleepless nights until you've satisfied your curiosity. While Felicia is designed to power a single [EDIT- the costs of the NOS components available in the States make it justifiable to make a Felicia for each] source component, you might find its possible benefits are worthwhile, or maybe not

.
That would depend on your metrics.

Brad, Ron - I'll be a bit more explicit. Your power conditioner has the benefit of providing mediocre powerconditioning for multiple components. Its certainly better than nothing, and I'm sure its a worthwhile investment. And as of now, yours supports power draws that Felicia hasn't been configured for.

Please visit -
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=18443
and if the discussion of technical merits aren't compelling enough for you 230v AC ilk, don't bother. I don't care what anecdotal hearsay is deterring you sissies. Iff'n there isn't one of you non-Norte-Americanos willing to take the plunge, the heck with ya.

Builder Brad · « **Reply #11 on:** 24 May 2005, 07:41 am »

Hello Ron,

I am currently using 2 x dual stage filters on a dedicated 6mm mains spur. The first pair of filters are in line with the power supply for my power amps, 2 x stereo cyrus “powers” and 6 x BK monoblock 300 watt modules. I am planning on replacing all of these amps with AKSA kit and currently waiting for 1 x 25 watt and 1 x 55 kits to arrive, being the first stage I the upgrade path.

The second pair of filters covers the low power components - Plasma, Denon AVC-A1SE AV pre amp and processor, satellite receiver, CD, DVD ect. I am planning on upgrading the Denon with a GK-1R and selling the Denon on ebay. Since building a pair of Linkwitz Orions I have not really used the surround sound processor, preferring stereo even on movie soundtracks.

I have got to say that the most noticeable improvement/difference through using the mains conditioning/ filters was on the low power components. I am still not sure if it is beneficial to use this type of filter design with high power amplifiers because of the current restrictions caused by the chokes.

I will let you know how I find these filters effect the AKSAs and GK-1R once I have built them.

hope this makes sense, no chance to read through b4 posting.

Brad

SamL · « **Reply #12 on:** 24 May 2005, 11:01 am »

Not sure if this little gismo will work for GK1 but those who own budget DVD/CD player might want to give Jaycar's EMI Power Line Filter a go. For NZ$11.25 it worth every penny and effort.
(If link doesn't work, search for MS4003)
http://www1.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=MS4003&CATID=&keywords=filter&SPECIAL=&form=KEYWORD&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=

It might be small (size of 9V battery), it work. It bring smile back on my face after listening to my lightly mod Pioneer DV667 DVD (563A in North America) player with it. Took me less than an hour to get it fitted and it is staying in my system. This include the time it took me to look for my soldering iron and bit & pieces hidden by my wife.
http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=1703

Have fun,
Sam

RonR · « **Reply #13 on:** 18 Jun 2005, 10:10 am »

Hi All,

Well, I've now had two 'Triode' PCs feeding my AKSA 55N+ for a week. I used one conditioner for each channel, and they were hard wired from the start with Chris Ven Haus' Flavour 1 Mains cables.

So, how does it sound?......

A definite improvement in: Bass extension, detail, 'black' background and sound stage.

Suffice it to say that I'm so impressed with this 'Mediocre' PC, that I've ordered the bits to make a 240V Felicia for the GK-1!

Cheers,

Ron.

Occam · « **Reply #14 on:** 18 Jun 2005, 03:02 pm »

Ron,

As the first 'non-Norte' willing to step up to the plate, you win a prize!
PM me your address and I'll airpost you 2 Aerovox metal can metalized polyprop in oil 14uf motor run caps. I don't know the transformers you'll be using, so the two will allow you to test with 7, 14 & 28uf. GB seems to have a preponderance of dry motor run caps, and while the dry Arcotronics and Ducati caps I've tried have been better than the orignal Amrad in oil, the Aerovox currently reigns supreme.
Tiangus has been experimenting with the bypass caps for the main cap and we're quite enamoured with the rather expensive Auricaps. But I initially suggest using the caps you've used in your Triode Systems DIY mains filter, for bypassing.
http://www.triode-systems.com/modules/wfsection/article.php?articleid=3

Actually, I consider the above filter rather nice and well executed. But it does not provide the benefits of balanced symmetrical power, nor can it provide the massive filtering/conditioning of Felicia. Its the same topology as used by the PSaudio Ultra Outlet, as well a the deZorel, save for its use of Y caps.

Given your high cost of transformers for Felicia, as you don't have a low cost equivalent of the surplus Signal a41 transformers available, the Triode Systems DIY Audio HiFi Mains Filter - The Feed Through Unit, is an economical compromise. RS has just begun carrying the Wurth Eletronik WE-CMB common mode chokes (#489-380 or other XL sized depending on current requirements @2.70GBP ea) , that might signicantly lower the cost and possibly improve performance over that of the specified Roxbough C200 @ 8.27GBP.

AKSA · « **Reply #15 on:** 18 Jun 2005, 10:51 pm »

Hmmm,

Very interesting!!

Hugh

RonR · « **Reply #16 on:** 19 Jun 2005, 07:15 pm »

Paul,

That really is very decent of you old chap

There'll be a PM coming your way very soon!

For my Felicia I'm using 100VA Trafos from Farnell, with 0-115,0-115:0-50,0-50 windings (part no. 186-790), which give 100V when using the secondaries in series. The motor-run cap I have at the moment is an LCR Polypropylene 15uF, so the Aerovoxes will be a welcome addition to the tweaking armoury.

What I didn't say in my last post was that the CVH power cables account for around half of the improvements I heard with the Triode Conditioners. Certainly about 75% of the bass extension, and around 50% of the sound stage and detail improvements came from the CVH cable, the rest from the power conditioners. Each of these tweaks on their own was worthwhile, but they seem to compliment each other when used together.

Caveat: This was using 2 power conditioners, each rated at 10A, 1 per channel with the AKSA 55N+ wired in dual monobloc configuration. Of course YMMV, especially for those using 115V mains power!

Cheers,

Ron.

TimS · « **Reply #17 on:** 28 Jun 2005, 01:55 pm »

For those aussies thinking about building the Felicia I looked at sourcing the transformers locally or from the US.
The only local option I could find was the 100 VA transformer from Farnell that RonR used. They are a whopping $63.00 each! I then got a quote from BGMicro in the US on shipping 4 of the Signal transformers (US$8.99 each) to Australia (for making two Felicia’s).
The shipping cost is more than the actual parts - US$116.00 by air (2 weeks plus) or US$50 by sea (8 weeks plus) - I chose the cheaper option!

There is no customs duty to be paid as long as the parts total less than A$250.00

Occam · « **Reply #18 on:** 28 Jun 2005, 02:47 pm »

Well, for whatever faults we've in the States, the lack of a healthy surplus market isn't one of them.

A quick note for those using other than the BGMicro sourced surplus transformers, that 15uf capacitor reccomended might not be appropriate for other than its approx 30v (series configured) secondary volatage. All things being equal, the higher the voltage of the secondary, the higher that windings inductance, calling for a lower 'betwixt and between' capacitance. I'm awaiting feedback from Ron with his dual 50v secondary windings transformers, who will try them both in series and parallel (in parallel they'll have 1/4 the inductance of the series configuration), and then send him caps appropriate for his needs.

RonR · « **Reply #19 on:** 1 Jul 2005, 12:18 pm »

Hi Paul,

After waiting several months for the builders to start work on our house, they actually started last week! The HiFi is packed away in the loft while repairs are carried out and rooms redecorated.
Sorry for the wait, it looks like I should have a functioning lounge and HiFi again some time soon, but at least it gives me some time to find a reasonable looking case to fit the 240V Felicia.

Cheers,

Ron.