Popori Electrostats - Top of the Food Chain

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Housteau

Re: Popori Electrostats - Top of the Food Chain
« Reply #60 on: 29 Jun 2025, 06:24 pm »
Thank you.
I have talked and worked with Edgar many times. How he manages to do all that he does is beyond me.
He is a human dynamo. Nobody I know talks as fast as he does!

I have the Bacch4Mac with the Babyface Pro + and room correction output through Roon.
Is there anything more to be dome to activate the room correction other than to run it with the microphones in your ear in the listening position?
If I understand you correctly, a point source box subwoofer is just fine to use with the Poporis so long as  the subwoofer and Popori's output frequencies don't overlap.

Yes, Edgar is quite something else.  You will need to be sure the settings in the ORC section are correct for what you want to do.  Very often the default setting are fine, but for the Popori by itself, set the low correction limit to 40Hz.  Also, allow 4-6 dB of boost.  When mating a sub have its gain set high.  ORC will trim it back.  Also have ORC set to the low limit instead of that 40Hz.

If you have the ability not to overlap by using two separate  crossover frequencies, I have found that to be best.

Rocket_Ronny

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Re: Popori Electrostats - Top of the Food Chain
« Reply #61 on: 29 Jun 2025, 09:26 pm »
Quote
What I have found is when the main speaker radiates bass in a figure 8 pattern, like here, then you really really want to have the sub match that pattern.  Box subs stick out like a sore thumb because they radiate like a pulsing sphere.  Makes perfect integration almost impossible.

Has not been my experience and I cross over well above 100 hz, but I may not be as fussy as you with all of your show experience.  :o That's not a dig, but an honest assessment.
The sub used is probably more important than the pattern, and also the implementation would be critical. I would also say it has to be acoustic suspension, or sealed, to blend in.

Rocket Ronny
« Last Edit: 2 Jul 2025, 02:35 am by Rocket_Ronny »

Housteau

Re: Popori Electrostats - Top of the Food Chain
« Reply #62 on: 5 Jul 2025, 02:57 pm »
Here is the link to my Popori WR3 install and set-up that has just been released'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMDZonChvqo&t=19s

Housteau

Re: Popori Electrostats - Top of the Food Chain
« Reply #63 on: 5 Jul 2025, 03:43 pm »
There are two things that I did not go into detail about in the video that I should have at least mentioned.  The first is that the differences in frequency responses were probably also influenced by the construction differences of the room itself.  The second is when it came to fully understanding the timing issues.  Because of the differences between right and let channels in frequency response, the corrective mix of settings used is different for each channel.

Early B.

Re: Popori Electrostats - Top of the Food Chain
« Reply #64 on: 5 Jul 2025, 07:13 pm »
How do the Popori's sound compared to your previous VMPS speakers?

Housteau

Re: Popori Electrostats - Top of the Food Chain
« Reply #65 on: 5 Jul 2025, 09:30 pm »
The V60s are really fine speakers.  That is why I had them for so long.  But, they are also complex with a lot of different drivers and parts.  The Popori are very simple having a single driver and no crossover.  That simplicity comes through as having more resolution and transparency.  A single driver reproducing the entire frequency range just can't be beat.

Rocket_Ronny

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Re: Popori Electrostats - Top of the Food Chain
« Reply #66 on: Yesterday at 04:14 am »
Thanks for the great video Dave. Fun to finally have video of your listening space after all these years, maybe 20, ha.

My question is, did the woofer towers rolling off at 12 db/octave from 38 hz fill in all of the W3 roll off starting from 200 hz, or was e.q. added by the Baach or active crossover?

I was surprised that removing the foam pads brightened the sound as I thought their purpose was to reduce bass output to accommodate closer rear wall positioning. I can understand the foam reducing the highs though.

I had some RM30s and liked the way they imaged and looked. Thing was the bass was a bit wooly, but far worse was the speaker sounded hard. Could be old capacitors, etc, but I did not have the time or desire to mess with it. Otherwise, they could have been a long time companion.

Rocket Ronny

Housteau

Re: Popori Electrostats - Top of the Food Chain
« Reply #67 on: Yesterday at 06:20 am »
My question is, did the woofer towers rolling off at 12 db/octave from 38 hz fill in all of the W3 roll off starting from 200 hz, or was e.q. added by the Baach or active crossover?

I was surprised that removing the foam pads brightened the sound as I thought their purpose was to reduce bass output to accommodate closer rear wall positioning. I can understand the foam reducing the highs though.

The BACCH system has a module called ORC, or Optimal Room Correction.  Towards the beginning of the video when I tried the first crossover point at 50 Hz, I showed that chart, then reflected back to the WR3s chart on their own.  In jumping between charts, you can see how ORC corrected the frequency response except for those dips in the left channel.  That was eventually fixed by the timing corrections explained at the end of the video, which the 12 dB slope was a part of.  That Xilica active control system has the ability to make very fine adjustment in many areas.  I did use it sparingly to help correct different areas as well.

I have read that about the foam pieces as well and to be honest the manual seems a bit counter intuitive about that.  It could be that they reduce a large band of frequencies, but with them further out into the room it is just the highs that get noticed.  Also, by reducing bass output the highs would seem more prevalent.

Rocket_Ronny

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Re: Popori Electrostats - Top of the Food Chain
« Reply #68 on: Yesterday at 04:37 pm »
Thanks Dave.

So at the shows, when the Beach was not in the signal path, did the Popori's have the same approximate roll off as you shown, or did being 3' off the wall verses what looks like your 6' make for a more balanced bass response?

Regarding the foam, I thought one was to use them when the speakers are close to the wall to reduce the bass to work with room gain and be removed when out in the room like you have. So removing the foam in this understanding should not make the highs more noticeable since the bass volume would be higher. Theory aside, we have to go by your experience, so thanks for that.

Rocket Ronny

Housteau

Re: Popori Electrostats - Top of the Food Chain
« Reply #69 on: Yesterday at 05:13 pm »
So at the shows, when the Beach was not in the signal path, did the Popori's have the same approximate roll off as you shown, or did being 3' off the wall verses what looks like your 6' make for a more balanced bass response?

Regarding the foam, I thought one was to use them when the speakers are close to the wall to reduce the bass to work with room gain and be removed when out in the room like you have. So removing the foam in this understanding should not make the highs more noticeable since the bass volume would be higher. Theory aside, we have to go by your experience, so thanks for that.

The only show with the Popori that was not using Bacch, that I am aware of, was Costa Mesa on Friday and Saturday.  The Costa Mesa show got a lot of praise and attention because the WR3s were being used without subs and the bass response blew everyone away.  And that was before Sunday when the Bacch was added in.  So, on Friday and Saturday the WR3s were playing without any correction.  I am sure that each different room set-up will show different results.  The manual does suggest more of a closer placement to that wall for bass reinforcement.  That just seems wrong to me to place that kind of speaker in a room without a lot of space around it.  So, I did not try a close placement.

I follow you on the foam thing and basically do not disagree.  I have talked to other owners that have found negligible differences in moving the pieces around.  Last night I went ahead and removed all of them for another test.  It was a more open, but lighter sound all around.  It didn't seem in proper balance in their current position in my room.  As you see the foam pieces in my video, that is how they come and are suggested by the factory. 

Housteau

Re: Popori Electrostats - Top of the Food Chain
« Reply #70 on: Yesterday at 08:37 pm »
There is something else that is probably very confusing to people and that is the frequency chart that I show.  For those used to seeing measurements from free-field mics in a room, my charts look wrong.  There is no Harman type curve, and the upper frequencies are very strange and lumpy.  Isn't that all wrong?  No, it is not and this is why.

The measurements taken with the Bacch system are in-ear measurements and not in-room.  It measures exactly what enters the ear canal and what the brain receives to work with.  It does this through the use of binaural microphones that are worn during the test tones.  These are of the same type that David Chesky uses for his recordings.  They are extremely accurate and take in the shape of the ear, the ear pina, distance between the ears, shoulders, upper torso, etc. to create an individual frequency response, a hearing fingerprint specific for that individual.  So, what you see in my video is my own fingerprint.  Everyone else's would be different.

Evolution has dictated the correct high frequency response we have needed to simply stay alive and to avoid predators.

The ear wants to hear a flat smooth curve in the bass as mine shows, but often it takes a Harman type curve captured by a free-field mic to allow that flat curve into the ear canal. 
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 09:59 pm by Housteau »