[arthur]

I have found a lot of conflicting info out there and am hoping someone with experience can clear it up for me.

What would be the ideal ceiling height for a 15x24 foot room? I understand there is probably no ideal, then maybe best range? I can go between 8’ and 10’ 10”.

The floors wood and walls mineral wool insulated and covered with drywall (maybe 5/8”). Above a crawl space, so probably on 2x6 beams. I’m planning on putting triangular 24” corner traps on 3 corners and maybe a bit more treatment. There will be a couch with lots of cushioning. There will be a couple of doors to a room on one long side that can be left slightly ajar to absorb some of the waives, On the other long side a pretty big window that will hopefully be tamed enough with some very thick curtains.



Thank you!

[toocool4]

If you are using the Golden ratio of 1 x 1.6 x 2.56 where it goes like this (Height, Width, Length) then you are looking at a height of 9.375

1 x is height
1.6 x is width
2.56 x is length

Don’t waste your money on corner treatments, the corners are a tiny fraction of your problem. The whole wall is a bigger problem, look into addressing a bigger part of the wall’s rather than a tiny corner which will do very little audio difference.

You have a fairly big-ish room, look to getting your speakers well away from the room boundaries and you will find you’ll need less treatment.
My speakers sit almost 7 feet from the front walls and over 3 feet from the side walls, I have less room boundary interference.
Even though my front and rear wall are treated with quadratic diffusors, I only really need to pay attention to the floor and ceiling as those are the closest and smallest distances.

If you click on my systems profile on the left, you will see my room. The room sounds great and I have not done too much to it.

[WGH]

If you plan to include a TV with surround sound and Dolby Atmos ceiling speakers then go with 10'10"

[arthur]

Just 2 channel.

[arthur]

If you are using the Golden ratio of 1 x 1.6 x 2.56 where it goes like this (Height, Width, Length) then you are looking at a height of 9.375

1 x is height
1.6 x is width
2.56 x is length

Don’t waste your money on corner treatments, the corners are a tiny fraction of your problem. The whole wall is a bigger problem, look into addressing a bigger part of the wall’s rather than a tiny corner which will do very little audio difference.

You have a fairly big-ish room, look to getting your speakers well away from the room boundaries and you will find you’ll need less treatment.
My speakers sit almost 7 feet from the front walls and over 3 feet from the side walls, I have less room boundary interference.
Even though my front and rear wall are treated with quadratic diffusors, I only really need to pay attention to the floor and ceiling as those are the closest and smallest distances.

If you click on my systems profile on the left, you will see my room. The room sounds great and I have not done too much to it.

Your room is beautiful. Thank you for the recommendation.

I was thinking of that ratio but it also falls outside of the Richard Bolt measurements, and the higher ceiling falls within it. But both measurements fall outside of the Trevor Cox calculations. But I’m also not sure if any of these account for effects of rug, coffee table, couch, curtains, bookshelves, etc, taking up space and affecting absorption. Also, I’m wondering if going higher will make ceiling treatments more (or less) effective.

[toocool4]

Those various calculations you mentioned are for ideal worlds, at the end of the day, you have to work and make the best of what you have, that is what I have done.
Use your ears along the way.

If you can get a higher ceiling, I would do that it does not hurt.

This is what the back of my room looks like.

[veloceleste]

Getting your speakers placed for the best sound you can achieve before starting with room treatments is the first step.
There are numerous methods but start with your speaker manufacturer recommendations first for a general placement.
If you don’t like the results, try other methods until you like the sound. There is a lot of trial and error, and small changes in placement and angle can make a big difference. If your bass seems too prominent, don’t rule out corner traps. They can make a big difference in taming bass. While playing some full range music go stand in the corners behind your speakers and hear if the bass is loading up and getting loud. Then do the same in the other corners. If so, corner traps may help a lot. After that, consider other room treatments such as absorption and/or diffusion if you think they may help. It can be a rabbit hole and get pricey.
I have two systems in different rooms. One room doesn’t need any treatment, the other has bass traps and minimal wall treatments.

[WGH]

Have you explored the white papers on room design by Floyd E. Toole, Vice President Acoustical Engineering, Harman International Industries, Inc.?
All 11 articles should be read before designing a listening room.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=58304.0

The first white paper addresses your question about ceiling height. The same criteria for multi-channel sound is equally important for stereo sound.

A New Laboratory for Evaluating Multichannel Audio Components and Systems
Designing a dedicated listening room? This white paper will get you started with formulas to determine the perfect room including sections on room proportions, background noise, reverberation time, and control of early reflections.

[arthur]

Wow. That’s a lot of good information. With so many sources pushing in different directions it’s going to be interesting how it pans out. I guess it makes sense since controlled studies are not practical.

[WGH]

Norman Varney of AV RoomService has published many articles about room acoustics. A good place to start before buying corner traps or any acoustic treatments.

https://avroomservice.com/articles/


Norman's NWAA Labs article in Stereophile is a real eye opener.
https://avroomservice.com/measurement-beyond-the-atomic-level/

[rotarius]

The problem with tall ceilings is bass.  For me, that meant bright, thin sound.  Then you have to deal with integrating subs and all that. 

[arthur]

That’s a good point too - more air volume to be moved.

One interesting thing that I haven’t seen discussed is if bookcases and other furniture factor into this. They take up volume and maybe sound as  variations in wall lengths?

[rotarius]

It's good to have furniture to absorb and diffuse sound waves.  Just make sure your speakers are 2 ft away from the side walls.  Don't go crazy with acoustic panels.  I did that once and it sucked the life/joy out of the music. 

[WGH]

...more air volume to be moved.

Are you still using the Fritz Rev5 speakers and REL R-205 sub?

[arthur]

I’m in transitional situation right now because of the LA fires. Don’t know what system I’ll end up with and budget after rebuild. Just trying to think ahead and keep my mind on something pleasant
But, most likely monitors and a sub. Talking with Klaus from Odyssey to see what I can afford in the interim.

[WGH]

I’m in transitional situation right now because of the LA fires. Don’t know what system I’ll end up with and budget after rebuild. Just trying to think ahead and keep my mind on something pleasant
But, most likely monitors and a sub.

Well that's a shame. We are entering the audio show season so plenty of new speakers to listen to but I still haven't heard any monitor that would be even close to what I could afford that beat the Fritz speaker lineup.

Speaking of subs...

The total cubic feet in my listening area is 2608 cu. ft. Your space would be 2880 cu. ft. with an 8' ceiling; a 10' ceiling would be 3600 cu. ft.

I use the discontinued REL G1 MkII and it can pressurize the room with flat bass to 20 Hz and is -6 dB at 15Hz. Yes, no music goes that low but concert hall acoustics do. Lesser subs make bass go boom, REL Reference subs create space.




The common misconception is that subwoofers are only for low bass and action movies. The REL Reference subwoofers create space and for a reason nobody understands the sub also clarifies upper midrange and treble. Because the Reference subs reproduce the lowest frequencies, low level room echos in live recordings are revealed and as talked about in the John Hunter webiniar video below, the sub literally disappears.

Upscale Audio's Kevin Deal and John Hunter discuss my subwoofer, the REL G1 MkII Reference Subwoofer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSHkpy2280Q


John Hunter talks about the Reference Series at 1:27 into the December 5, 2024 webinar video. The entire video is fascinating.
Face to Face with John Hunter: Everything you ever wanted to know about REL’s Series S
https://www.youtube.com/live/8ubKiA5mrPQ


I brought my old REL Gibraltar G2 sub that has a 10" carbon fiber driver over to a friends house to compare with his new REL S/510 sub with Maggie speakers. The comparison wasn't even close, the G2 beat the S/510 in speed, clarity, tone, depth (by a mile) and every other parameter we could think of. He bought my G2 on the spot, I didn't need it because I had the G1 MkII. I would have kept the G2 but it maxed out with home theater action movies, for music only it is perfect.

I think a single S/510 would be too small for your room.

[planet10]

The only thing really special about the golden ratio is that irrational numbers. Almost any rectilinear box with (reasonable) irrational ratios tends to work best.

But WAY better is a sloped ceiling. Oher irregularities can also help.

Below a certain frequency the room dominates, the bigger it is the lower this frequency. The idea is to spread out the spacing of the room resonances.

We know that  software to control multiple subwoofers to be used as active devices to both provide more bottom and room resoance control.

dave

[arthur]

Those plants must act like nice diffusers. I always wanted to try that but could never figure out the light situation.

Thank you everyone for some great ideas!

[WGH]

Those plants must act like nice diffusers. I always wanted to try that but could never figure out the light situation.

The plants are Bamboo Palm, they grow under the tree canopy with low to moderate filtered light and like moist soil which means I can't over water them. Other palms look similar but need direct sunlight, I know because I killed many varieties.