[WannaBeHiFi]

Hey Y'all.  I haven't been around for a while.  I've been enjoying my X-LS Encores and making equipment upgrades in search of the soundscape imaging that Danny talks so much about.  I've made some progress.  I come today searching for practical tweaks that have a chance of enhancing this delicate soundstage that I have found.

Starting with amp, I had planned to use a Yamaha M-45 as my primary amp.  Though functioning, this unit is in need of a full service. Electrolytic caps need to be replaced, any Sony glue issues need to be addressed.  But I gotta have something to listen to.  So for <$100 I bought a Aiyima A07 Max class D ChiFi amp.  It does not have the same level of authority at lower freq. but mids and highs are better.  So there was improvement there.

I was using a cheap BT receiver.  I replaced that with a WIIM Mini streamer.  For <$100 that was another noticeable improvement.

Then I added a SMSL SU-1 DAC.  For <$100 this was another piece of ChiFi that made a noticeable improvement.

Now I've got a decent center image and the beginnings of a sound stage.

The last upgrade I made recently was to upgrade the Aiyima with Sparkos op amps.  THAT made a difference.  NOW I'm hearing details I've not heard before.  The other night David Grisman shuffled on.  Somethin in my head went Ooooo.  So I put on Kaleidoscope F5 and started listening.  The details I picked up on, that I'd not heard before were two mandolins Dawg on the R, a supporting mando on the L.  Two violins, the lead on the L with another on the R.  Guitar solidly in the middle with Bass behind the guitar.  I could hear each instrument clearly defined in space.  How I'm having fun re-listening to my better records and files hearing details that my previous setup could not reveal.

Now that I've got a baseline.  I've demonstrated that I can get that soundstage in my space. I want to fully service the M-45 and return it to it's former glory.  I'm very curious to hear how a properly serviced M-45 will compare. 

So given all that are there other tweaks that may or will have an audible impact?  For example I built the X-LS with standard binding cup but I bought the tube connectors.  Now that I have a soundstage image I'm in a position to install the tube connectors and see if I can hear a difference. 
Related:  I'm using 16ga lamp cord for speaker wire.  Is there an audible improvement to be found there?

Any and all suggestions are appreciated. 
Thanks in advance.

[Tyson]

The very best thing you can do for soundstage is pull the speakers way out from the walls.  Even if it's only temporary, you should try it to see what it's like.

[WannaBeHiFi]

Yea, that's been part of the journey.  I've tried a few different configurations.  Currently the X-LS are 6 ft from the front wall, 2 ft from the sides, with 5 ft between them.  I listen between 5-10 ft from the speakers. This configuration is best so far. 

I just finished listening to Miles Filles die Kilimanjaro.  The extra details I'm now hearing had me captivated.  Sometimes though, it's almost as if the center image is too far back.  I will have to try moving them a ft or two closer to the front wall and evaluate.   But those are easy tweaks. 

[Tyson]

I think you're headed in the right direction.  You should also try to get some tubes in your system.  A tube preamp, or a tube integrated amp would both really improve soundstage.

[william2001]

I'm seeing lots of hardware mentions but nothing about room acoustics.  Don't downplay the importance there.  Get some absorption panels at the first reflection points, sidewall and ceiling.  A few inches of Rockwool or OC703 will do it.  GR has some Panel kits, or you could put something together yourself without too much trouble.  Tons of videos out there about how to do it.  Next steps would be corner bass traps and some diffusion if the space allows.  Beyond that, the hardware and speaker / listener placement absolutely matters.  I like the tube preamp recommendation.  My DIY Class A monoblocks (very similar to the Pass Labs XA25) absolutely destroy my mid-fi Marantz receiver for soundstage realism when I switch back and forth.         

[WannaBeHiFi]

...  Tons of videos out there about how to do it.  Next steps would be corner bass traps and some diffusion if the space allows.  Beyond that, the hardware and speaker / listener placement absolutely matters.  I like the tube preamp recommendation.  My DIY Class A monoblocks (very similar to the Pass Labs XA25) absolutely destroy my mid-fi Marantz receiver for soundstage realism when I switch back and forth.         

I've reviewed a lot of those. Danny talks a lot about room treatments. I get it.  But my music room is my bedroom/office.  I would love to get more space between the speakers, but I gotta work with what I have.  Listening is pretty much near field.  I tried some absorption panels at first reflection but couldn't hear any improvement.

I have hard floors. So I expect there might be benefit to a rug.  But a rug would catch far more sand and fur than reflections.

I thought about a diffusion panel front wall center but front wall is half fireplace half bookshelf/desk. Maybe one of these days I will develop a better understanding of room acoustics.  It's interesting to use a tone generator, especially at lower frequences, and then move around the room.  I can hear the bass pile up in the corners and such but there's not much to be done about it.  There was an annoying low freq node that I mitigated somewhat by bringing the speakers further into the room.

[WannaBeHiFi]

I think you're headed in the right direction.  You should also try to get some tubes in your system.  A tube preamp, or a tube integrated amp would both really improve soundstage.

Yea, I keep hearing that.  I remember as a little kid our town had a tv repair shop that sold tubes.  But for my whole life tubes have truly been a thing of the past.
Now I see tubes everywhere, even the crazy high end stuff that Danny has.  So I'm curious.  From what I've gathered so far it seems preamp is the best place to introduce tubes.  I suppose I will have to try that some time. 

One thing I ponder is all of the SS equipment that I am somewhat familiar with are extremely reliable.  Once you get everything locked in, it will stay that way until a variable is changed.  Tubes by design degrade over a much shorter timespan, and will fail.  On a scale tubes are closer to lightbulbs.  It is the introducing the need to periodically replace that something in me wants to push back against. 

[Danny Richie]

Post pictures of your room.

[nlitworld]

One thing I ponder is all of the SS equipment that I am somewhat familiar with are extremely reliable.  Once you get everything locked in, it will stay that way until a variable is changed.  Tubes by design degrade over a much shorter timespan, and will fail.  On a scale tubes are closer to lightbulbs.  It is the introducing the need to periodically replace that something in me wants to push back against.

You're correct, a tube preamp is the way to dip your toes in. Think of preamp tubes as the best colored light bulb you need to replace about once a decade. Unless you have an Audible Illusions preamp that runs tubes harder than a dragster engine blows pistons you'll be fine. The nice part about that is you can really dial in the sound you like between tube type and brand. NOS tubes are a rabbit hole, but there are several reputable sources for solid purchases. Definitely a  in my experience.

[WannaBeHiFi]

Post pictures of your room.

Lol.  gimme a minute, I need to tidy up a bit.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Speaker cables can make a difference as do interconnects and usb cables.  It all depends upon how resolving your gear is and your room.  How long do your speaker cables need to be?

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Speaker cables can make a difference as do interconnects and usb cables.  It all depends upon how resolving your gear is and your room.  How long do your speaker cables need to be?

It also depends a lot on the music you're listening to.

[WannaBeHiFi]

Speaker cables can make a difference as do interconnects and usb cables.  It all depends upon how resolving your gear is and your room.  How long do your speaker cables need to be?

Current setup, about 20 ft.

[WannaBeHiFi]

It also depends a lot on the music you're listening to.

Agreed.  I would add the music AND the recording. Right now, with the imaging I've got I'm gravitating toward small jazz ensembles Miles, Chet Baker, Grissman.  I expect much of the soundstage I'm seeking will be found in better source material.  But that's gonna take time.  Heck I need to get up to speed and get past lossy formats.  It's a journey.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Current setup, about 20 ft.

For 20' I would use 10 to 12g speaker cables.  I used Blue Jeans Cables 10g speaker wire as I need 16' runs.  They won't break the bank, especially if you use the unterminated wires and use them bare or buy their compression spades and banana plugs.  That is what I do.

https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm

GR Research also sells excellent speaker cables from what I have read but 20' is going to be expensive.

[WannaBeHiFi]

For 20' I would use 10 to 12g speaker cables.....

For my purposes their basic 12ga cable is about $50.  Also interesting is the four wire cable at $92.  That is four 14ga wires.  What would be the equivalent of two 14ga paired together?   

[william2001]

Effective gauge would be 11.

[WannaBeHiFi]

Post pictures of your room.

Here is the basic room layout.


Here is a view of the front wall.

[Danny Richie]

Here is a view of the front wall.

Ah man, you have way to many hard surfaces everywhere to be getting any really good results.

Step number 1 is to start treating your room. The rest will fall into place.

[Tyson]

Agreed.  A thick rug and lots of absorbers on the walls.