[lonewolfny42]

I will be there around 12-12:30 and will probably only be able to stay a couple or few hours.  I'm picking up Claud on the way.

-C

Hey Carl,

Don't forget your camera...thanks !!! [/list:u]
Chris[/list:u]

[Carlman]

I didn't see your post, LW... so guess what... yes, I forgot my camera.

However, this is only day 1.  Somebody else surely has a camera.  I had to leave a bit early today to cut grass and whatnot... as did Claud and Tim.  So, we were the first to arrive and the first to leave.

Roger, Richard, Tom, and Brandon were all there when I left today.

I basically learned that the TacT + Butler = PerfectForCarl.

The Tact plus a SS amp is technically excellent but it needed a little something to get my toe tapping... the Butler did it.  However, without the TacT, the soundstage, accuracy, and general sound quality just wasn't realistic.  With the TacT, mmmm... everything sounded just right.

I heard the most realistic and palpable sound with stellar imaging I've ever heard today.  I'll let Shane go into the details of the system but it was as perfect as I've ever heard... and musical... enjoyable, etc.  

The last thing that was happening before I left was a computer vs. Bel Canto transport comparison.  It was a very good test since the same DAC was used to A/B.  Very cool and I liked the PC just a tad better in my blind test.  I will say that the differences were small and there were very minor trade-offs in either direction but for a multi-thousand dollar transport vs. a $350 PC, the choice for me was obvious regardless.

When I've compared the PC to lesser transports, the PC stood out with a much smoother sound.  My hat's off to BC... they did a great job on their player and it's now my new benchmark, replacing the $4500 tubed BAT VK-D5.

Shane ordered some great pizza and supplied lots of goodies.  Many thanks for a good time and great listening!

[lonewolfny42]

Carlman:

I basically learned that the TacT + Butler = PerfectForCarl  

Well thats good news Carl...guess I'll have to check out a TacT one of these days.... but I'm not so good with charts and graphs.... [/list:u]

Thanks for the info.... [/list:u]

[zybar]

It's not that hard to use Chris.

Hell, if I can figure out how to use it.  

George

[claud]

I have to agree with Carl. There is just something about a Butler amp. When you add the Tact room correction it is a great match. I have never heard drums (other than live) like I heard at Shane's .
I think I may have been a bad influence on Tim and Carl since I had them over at my place to hear my retubed V12R Cary/Merlin system before we went to Shane's.

[RichardS]

Thanks to Shane for all the work setting up...it's really great to be able to swap and compare in a minimal time frame, and the Tact really helps with all it's digital inputs.

My primary interest here was to get a feel for the value/ease of using a computer as the digital source, and with the Tact it was easy to compare. We cued Dark Side of the Moon on the Bel Canto Player/transport ($7k+) and synced it with the same selection from the USB drive, using Foobar, and A/B'd for a while.

My impressions from the sweet spot were that the BC was a bit more expansive and enveloping in sound, and maybe a touch more detailed and dynamic. The computer drive was slightly smoother with the mids more prominent, and the stage more focused in the center--generally more intimate. Very close, and would need more time (with more familiar music) to get a good handle on other differences. I could live with either, and PC-Audio is a screaming bargain.

I use both a Genesis Lens and a Camelot Dragon Pro 2/2 in my system, and I'm curious how these would help the computer feed, and I don't remeber if the computer had an 'audiophile-grade' power cord. Keep in mind also that different digital coax cables were being used, and the one from the PC was at least 8 feet.

I enjoyed the different amps, especially the inexpensive and tiny Nuforce monos, and wished I could have stayed to hear a comparison to the Tact amp (which is what I use). It's tough to do a fair comparison using the Tact amp, though, since it's also a DAC--and, I think, considerably better than the DAC card inside the 2.2x.

The Usher speakers are really nice, and nice looking IMO. Great detail without etch or grain. Bass maybe a little lightweight, but I'm used to a pair of subs. Since acquiring and getting used to line arrays (Selah Incredarrays) I find most smaller speakers to squash the soundstage and curtail the leading-edge attack, and these WERE somewhat squashed, but the attack was very good and they sounded really open. If I was looking to trade speakers, I'd consider these.

One more thing...Shane had the Tact set to a flat response (to take out the added flavoring of various frequency-response curves). Maybe a good idea for comparisons, but not the most musical to me (even with my 50-year-old ears, I need a slow roll-off in the highs for things to sound natural---and I generally prefer a bit of a bump in the bass and very slight dip through the mids, too).

When the Tact correction was switched out (bypass) the sound got somewhat boomy with muddy mids, even with the huge diffusers (?) all around the room.

I love the Tact room correction, and can't imagine living without it. When you see/hear what your room is doing to the sound of your expensive speakers, the slight loss of transparency (and I do mean slight) is a welcomed trade-off. And for those who like to roll tubes, or adjust VTA, the various frequency-response curves you can program in for different music/moods, are really fun, and only require a click of the remote.

Anyway, I'll get off my soap box. It's always great meeting with other audiophiles. Almost makes one feel normal, or at least that you're not alone.

[vrao81]

I was very impressed with the Tact system and the Usher speakers I got to hear today. I'm too lazy to type a long post but suffice to say the speakers sounded much much better with the room correction added. The sound is very refined and balanced with fantastic dynamics. Imaging is probably the best I have ever heard. And the VR4 JR's are not a bad speaker either, in fact for intimate vocals I like these a bit better. Overall a great experience and I highly recommend anyone interested in what room correction can do to visit Shane and check out what he has to offer.

BTW I went home and listened to that Usher demo cd on my system...it sounded awful. Looks like I've gotta save up to upgrade  

[hometheaterdoc]

First of all, thanks to everyone who attended.  As usual, I had a blast getting to talk shop and socialize with everyone.  I also have been anxious for everyone to spend some time enjoying all my new discoveries.  As much as I enjoy finding great products, as much as I have been in awe of some of the improvements in my systems, the icing on the cake is getting to share the improvements with other audiophool lunatics

To address a couple things:

The audio PC that was used in the main system with the Tact 2.2X and Usher Dancer II CP-8571s was purposely as run of the mill as possible.  It was a super special Dell basic desktop box I picked up about two weeks ago.  $265.38 including tax and shipping (Celeron 2.6Ghz with a 40GB drive, XP Home.  Foobar2000 and EAC were added).  A $70 M-Audio Revolution 5.1 card was added to it to get coaxial digital output.  The CPU box was sitting in the corner of the room.  No special power cords were used.  It was the stock 18 gauge unshielded cable that comes with the box.  The digital cable that was used to run to the Tact was a $50 retail Carver Pro/Pheonix Gold entry level 16 footer.  The box sat on the floor with no isolation/vibration absorbtion used whatsoever.

I was purposely trying to keep the computer as UNtricked out (is untricked even a word??) as possible to show what the most basic computer could do as a glorified transport into the Tact.  Obviously if the Tact wasn't involved, I would need a better soundcard to get better analog performance.

All target correction curves for the various amplifiers were set to flat.  I didn't want the target curve itself to influence anyone's opinions of the amplifiers being compared.  In fact, I wanted to remove the rest of the chain as much as possible so that everyone could see that a) the Tact doesn't prevent the sound of an amplifier from coming through and b) having everything else flat allows the listener to decide which flavor of amplifier they like the best.

Overall, I still prefer the Bel Canto Player compared to the PC.  That's not to say the Audio PC couldn't be further improved.  Each piece has its strengths and weaknesses.  The PC offers incredible flexibility.  I can surf, play videos, respond to emails, listen to tunes.  Plus I can have a whole CD collection on networked drives.  That means never having to get up out of the listening chair to constantly change discs..... and the lazy get lazier... and the fat get fatter  The Player on the other hand offers top shelf SACD and DVD-A playback, as well as the best video performance from DVD I've ever seen.  No amount of DVD playback in a HTPC has provided a better picture.  So for those of us who have to do double duty of music and video in the same system, the Bel Canto is A-OK with me..... and I still like its audio performance on CD audio better than the PC.... having said that, if I tricked out the PC with better power conditionning and some isolation, it might be a bit closer.  Nevertheless, each product has its own niche and doing audio via the PC into the Tact offers a ridiculously inexpensive means of top shelf audio performance.  For someone who's looking at things from a complete system perspective, the savings from having to have a super expensive front end helps offset the cost of the Tact... and you get room correction as a bonus

Since everyone was coming and going at various times, it was tough to show all the different system configs before some folks had to go.  Several folks didn't get to hear the NuForce amplifiers powering the Ushers.  Once they got some warm up time, they more than impressed several in attendance.  It almost seems silly to use a $1600 pair of amplifiers with a $4K preamp and $7K speakers.... but the little nuforces held their own.  

Overall, my favorite combination thus far is the Tact plus Butler with the Ushers.  It's got the exact blend of things I want to suit my listening tastes.  

A funny story for folks.  I was re-organizing stuff Saturday evening.  In my "empty box storage room" where the insane amount of empty boxes for all the demo gear is stored, I started moving stuff around in preparation for the Von Schweikert VR-4SR big boxes showing up late this week/early next week.... well lo and behold, one of the boxes wasn't empty.  I had another Butler 2250 that I had forgotten about.  When normal people clean out their storage rooms, they find a screwdriver, or a flashlight, or some old clothes they thought they'd lost.... me.... I find $3,000 amplifiers  I really need to do inventory more often......

Once again, it was great to have everyone over.  You are all welcome back anytime (might I suggest after the VR-4SRs arrive and have had time to break in that we do this again?... I think they will be a great comparison test with the Ushers).  Hopefully you all enjoyed yourself.  Obviously the food wasn't quite to the level of Lonewolfy's full service affair in New York, but hopefully the gear was at least in the ballpark.

Take care and don't be strangers with the summer coming...

[Hantra]

I had another Butler 2250 that I had forgotten about. ...

I had fun too!  Enjoyed it!  Comments to follow when I get more time.

[sheadlee]

Shane,

Once again, thank you for your hospitality, as well as additional ideas...as to new 'toys' to think about.

I took some pics, but I've been wrestling with getting them to the Gallery, and then into a reply...bear with me.

[lonewolfny42]

hometheaterdoc  :

Obviously the food wasn't quite to the level of Lonewolfy's full service affair in New York, but hopefully the gear was at least in the ballpark...

Doc...You have some excellent equipement to demo......get that other Butler 2250 up and running....makes a big difference in the sound. As for food...last time I was in N.C. , this is what I was looking for....yummy !!!   [/list:u]

[/list:u]

[Bingenito]

What a way to go.... Get cherries and kiwi fruit stuck in your eyes...That has got to suck.

[Hantra]

OK guys. . . .Sorry for the delay.  I don't really have time now, but I better post before I forget what I heard.  

Nevertheless, thanks to Shane for the hospitality.  We had some great stuff to listen to, and it's not often that one has that much nice gear all in one place!  

I heard some interesting things on Saturday.  I thought the AVM monos were good.  They sounded very articulate and accurate.  Bass was not as good with the Ushers.  I think a speaker that had bloated bass would appreciate the lean, tuneful bass of the AVM.  

The NuForce was a shock to me.  I didn't expect to like them as much as I did.  The bass was exceptional.  Honestly I didn't think the Ushers did bass until we fired those up.  That's more a function of the AVM than of the NuForce.  I did most of my listening with the NuForce b/c everyone left early and Shane was in the other room with Steve.  So I was all alone.  Just me and Jerry.  

The TacT was quite a revelation.  That was the first time I ever got to sit and play with a TacT, and it was an integral part of why this system sounded as good as it did.  I'd love to hear a TacT in my own system, but I am a bit hesitant.  Although every single time I swapped back and forth, I much preferred the TacT'ed sound, I don't know how it would be long term.  I was afraid I might get bored with it, or that the things it removed might be missed.  Of course that's pure speculation from a few hours of listening and totally in my mind, so that statement has no factual basis.  

The TacT was so good though that I'd give it a try regardless.  The startling increase in imaging, clarity, and decrease in haze and noise was very pleasing to hear.  

I was very disappointed that we didn't get to spend time with the Butler.  Everyone raved about the Butler with the TacT, so I wanted to hear it.  

Nevertheless I thought the Bel Canto player was pretty good.  It was better than it ought to have been.    That could have been the DAC in the TacT too though.  Who knows?

I enjoyed the time and I'd love to host here sometime.  I just have so little room.  But when I get my system set back up with any level of consistency, maybe I'll have to just do it and deal with the space issue.

Thanks again Shane!  Good seeing you guys. . .

[Inscrutable]

I, too, am woefully delinquent in posting commentary.  Thanks to Shane for hosting a great meet, and it was good seeing all of you again after a long hiatus.

Although I didn't hang long enough to catch the NuForce, the very first combination we played -  BelCanto > TacT > Butler > Ushers - was killer.  As others have said, the drum track on the Usher demo disc was the closest to sitting in front of a drum kit as I've ever heard, including mega-buck rigs at CES and THEShow.  Even tho the TacT rightfully gets a lot of credit for that, I think much (maybe more) of it goes to the synergy between the Butler and the Ushers.  Just like when we had that at my place driving the 3.3's, I think the Butler really excels at providing the low end grunt while retaining a good amount of texture and a bit of warmth.

Also as others have said, the difference the TacT makes was startling.  I wish I had heard it at Carl's in an arguably more challenging room with very inexpensive speakers (think you had the borrowed S520's then). If you could ever make a case for spending a hugely disproportionate share of the system cost on the front end, this piece makes it.  And I was really impressed with how easy and intuitive the user interface was.

I was also hugely impressed by running the PC into it.  While most preferred the BC in absolute terms, certainly if you have ANYTHING else on which to spend $ you couldn't ignore the bargain of the PC as transport.  At least while I was there we didn't switch stuff around to see how much to attribute to the TacT room correction, or the TacT DAC, or whether any other good DAC would yield similar results.  I've switched away from an HTPC because I've got enough complexity and high-maintenance in my life, but for those of you with more capability and patience, you owe it to yourself to try it.

Thanks for an interesting session, and I'll look forward to hearing the Seniors when they arrive.

[zybar]

OK guys. . . .Sorry for the delay.  I don't really have time now, but I better post before I forget what I heard.  

Nevertheless, thanks to Shane for the hospitality.  We had some great stuff to listen to, and it's not often that one has that much nice gear all in one place!  

I heard some interesting things on Saturday.  I thought the AVM monos were good.  They sounded very articulate and accurate.  Bass was not as good with the Ushers.  I think a speaker that had bloated bass would appreciate the le ...

Long term the TacT only gets more enjoyable.

I am about to put in an upgraded power supply that is supposed to make a nice improvement.  

The only way the TacT comes out is if there is a better option for room correction.  

I am not going back...  

George

[Hantra]

How long have you been "in" now G?

BTW, a question for TacT experts.  Why would I need the 2.2 versus the 2.0?  I wouldn't use a sub or any of the crossover features.  

Thanks,

B

[Bill Baker]

Hi Everyone,
  Looks like Shane did a hell of a job for this demo/listening session. I can only imagine I would have had a great time. (Imagine that, one dealer hanging out with another. Hey, it happens). Shane carries some great stuff and appears to be a great person to work with.

 Glad to hear everyone had a great time. Now if ya'll want some real pizza...............

[zybar]

...
  Glad to hear everyone had a great time. Now if ya'll want some real pizza...............

You would come to NYC!    

George

[zybar]

How long have you been "in" now G?

BTW, a question for TacT experts.  Why would I need the 2.2 versus the 2.0?  I wouldn't use a sub or any of the crossover features.  

Thanks,

B

If you aren't going to use subs, you would go with the 2.0.

I have been using the TacT for around 8 months.

George

[Inscrutable]

Now if ya'll want some real pizza...............

You would come to NYC!

You are (both) soooo right - about the pizza anyway  
I moved down here 20 yrs ago from western NY, and it was 10 more years before I could find italian food that got close to right (my mom came over on the boat, so i'm a bit spoiled).

About the TacT, we never really talked price, but can there be that much difference between the 2.0 and the 2.2 that you wouldn't choose the latter, just in case?  Or even the TCS for that matter.