[Saturn94]

That does it, I'm putting my Maggies out to the curb.

Ooh!  What’s your address? 

[josh358]

Reflected sounds have quite the attraction to the uninitiated and may be the correct way to listen to music in a typical home environment. The thing is, offering more lipstick (decent low frequency response) to a pig (magnepan) just complicates what is obviously a losing battle when realistic, accurate reproduction is wanted.

LOL -- ever been to a concert where nothing is plugged in? Which brings me to your first point. Two channel stereo doesn't work without room reflections. It is intrinsically broken. And that's true whether you're using a dipole or a point source; point sources tend to spread the image to the sides, dipoles to the rear. Both are at their best with acoustical treatment, although dipoles require less of it (but are more demanding of setup).

Insofar as there is a best treatment for dipoles, it's diffusion. Psychoacoustically, that will get you very close to an RFZ room. But you can get nice results without, as long as the dipoles are far enough from the front wall.

in general, I've found that dipole line sources excel at reproducing large ensembles and large venues. If it's just a few instruments, point sources will do. In any case, dipole line sources can be uncannily realistic. That's not something I can say of most point source loudspeakers, unless we're talking a few instruments or Diana Krall.

[Tyson]

What type of initiations involve lipstick and pigs, and how can I attend one?

[Letitroll98]

What type of initiations involve lipstick and pigs, and how can I attend one?

Oh you really need to get out more.

[SteveFord]

What type of initiations involve lipstick and pigs, and how can I attend one?
  How fond of banjo music are you?

Josh,
What's the lowest frequency for these dipole subs? 
It sounds like the design criteria was get the Tympani bass output without the monster room dividers.

[josh358]

What type of initiations involve lipstick and pigs, and how can I attend one?
  How fond of banjo music are you?

Josh,
What's the lowest frequency for these dipole subs? 
It sounds like the design criteria was get the Tympani bass output without the monster room dividers.

They aren't subs and they won't do the bottom octave, not within 3 dB, anyway. They're working on an infra woofer that will. But the UBS was designed as an ultra-compact dipole for use with the spouse-friendly system. It's basically the equivalent of the bass panel on a traditional Maggie. As I think I mentioned, they'll probably have limited utility with the traditional speakers. They work great with the LRS+ through 1.7, but are probably too expensive (less expensive woofers are coming, too). The 20.7 and 30.7 don't need them. They do improve the midbass on the 3.7i, so Wendell thinks that insofar as they're used with the traditional panels, that's where.

BTW, they do give the Tympani effect even if they don't go as deep. Wendell tried going back and forth the other day between the woofer on one of the panels (forget which one) and he said that it sounds more natural when the bass is coming from the UBS than it does when it's coming from the direction of the panel.

[stonedeaf]

This effect -labeled downward synthesis -by a number of  British builders and reviewers- basically exploits the fact that if you can build a speaker with very accurate bass performance down to 40hz or 50hz or even a bit above that-even if the deep bass drops like a stone below that-we will associate in our minds/experience that lower/but not lowest/ bass with  deeper fundamentals and "hear" what isn't there. Dozens of really fine UK "monitors" have demonstrated the truth of this design goal and ya-a properly integrated sub will demo that this is a pleasant illusion -not a fact. But illusion is just fine for me.

[josh358]

This effect -labeled downward synthesis -by a number of  British builders and reviewers- basically exploits the fact that if you can build a speaker with very accurate bass performance down to 40hz or 50hz or even a bit above that-even if the deep bass drops like a stone below that-we will associate in our minds/experience that lower/but not lowest/ bass with  deeper fundamentals and "hear" what isn't there. Dozens of really fine UK "monitors" have demonstrated the truth of this design goal and ya-a properly integrated sub will demo that this is a pleasant illusion -not a fact. But illusion is just fine for me.

Besides which, there aren't very many fundamentals down there. Pipe organ, mostly. But if you like to feel the room shake or (some say) chest thumps, you need it. Also, some people say it increases the sense of spaciousness -- I'm agnostic on that one!

[stonedeaf]

Ya -the dog of Home Theater is definitely wagging stereo/music products when it comes to speakers. Personally -if I can enjoy Ray Brown or Jaco Pastorius playing thru a speaker I'm happy.But having sold Magnipan speakers for years -LOTS of customers mate subs with their maggies and some of these subs are utter cr@p -if Wendell can get the things to market- a purpose built bass driver will give dealers a nice tool to add to their maggies sales -with a far more predictable audible result. Still -I'm not heavy breathing yet .

[SlushPuppy]

What type of initiations involve lipstick and pigs, and how can I attend one?
  How fond of banjo music are you?

Josh,
What's the lowest frequency for these dipole subs? 
It sounds like the design criteria was get the Tympani bass output without the monster room dividers.

If you search YouTube for "Audiophile Junkie" you can find two Axpona 2023 videos where he and a few of his friends are in the "secret" Magnepan room listening to a demonstration with Wendell. To demonstrate the dipole woofer arrays they removed the woofers from a pair of lower-priced Martin Logan speakers to show how they not only integrate well with Magnepan speakers, but with pretty much any other brand. If I remember correctly they are 6" drivers, so they are not going to subwoofer levels. Audiophile Junkie and his friends seemed impressed by the seamless integration. Someone asked if he was using DSP to get the bass. He said no, but it was an option if needed. One key takeaway from the videos is that Wendell said a product was coming very soon.

[Tyson]

I've been running OB bass for years and it's a game changer.  Once you hear what really good OB bass sounds like (clean, powerful, precise) it's very hard to go back to box bass. 

[josh358]

I've been running OB bass for years and it's a game changer.  Once you hear what really good OB bass sounds like (clean, powerful, precise) it's very hard to go back to box bass.

To my ears, it does for bass what OB does for the mids and highs, *and* it gives you smoother response in the room. It has a naturalness to it that I've never heard from a sealed woofer (never mind a ported one).

[josh358]

One key takeaway from the videos is that Wendell said a product was coming very soon.

I may have mentioned it already, but it's in production engineering and they're finishing up details like cosmetics, some aspects of construction, etc. There should be a production prototype in a few days (weeks?), it's being built -- but that isn't to say that there won't be changes after that.

[whydontumarryit]

Real Magnepans like the 3.7 don't need subs. The lesser models are too much of a compromise especially in dynamic range and trivialize how good planars can sound.

[SteveFord]

This sounds like something your bank account would rather you not ever hear.

[josh358]

This sounds like something your bank account would rather you not ever hear.

I would definitely go into the store with earplugs on.