[JakeJ]

Hi Gang,

I have a VMPS LCR for my center channel speaker in my all VMPS home theater kit.  It has the lower grade drivers made of ? materials vs the woven carbon fiber cones of the Megawoofers.  I contacted Misco and they have a driver that is close overall with the obvious difference being six mounting screw holes vs four in the original.

https://store.miscospeakers.com/6-5-inch-red-carbon-fiber-woofer-with-phase-plug-bna-82130

Transducer Specifications (Klippel LPM) Nominal Impedance (ohms) 8 DC Resistance (Re) (ohms) 6.25 Resonant Frequency (Fs) (Hz) 38 Voice Coil Inductance (Le) (mH) 0.15 Mechanical Q factor (Qms) 2.69 Electrical Q factor (Qes) 0.43 Total Q factor (Qts) 0.37 Moving Mass (Mms) (g) 17.8 without air load (Mmd) (g) 16.1 Suspension Compliance (Cms) (mm/N) 0.78 Mechanical Resistance (Rms) (kg/s) 1.80 Effective Piston Area (Sd) (cm2) 126.7 Suspension Equivalent Volume (Vas) (liters) 17.69 Force Factor (Bl) (T*m) 8.37 Efficiency (No) (%) 0.30 SPL (dB 1W/Z) 86.7 SPL dB 1W/Re) 87.5 EBP (Fs/Qes) 100 Motive Force (Bl^2/Re) 11.2

Anybody have any experience with these latest version of the WCF drivers?  Can I just drill new holes and drop them in?  Any xo changes required?

TIA for any help.

Jake

[G E]

Hi Gang,

I have a VMPS LCR for my center channel speaker in my all VMPS home theater kit.  It has the lower grade drivers made of ? materials vs the woven carbon fiber cones of the Megawoofers.  I contacted Misco and they have a driver that is close overall with the obvious difference being six mounting screw holes vs four in the original.

https://store.miscospeakers.com/6-5-inch-red-carbon-fiber-woofer-with-phase-plug-bna-82130

Transducer Specifications (Klippel LPM) Nominal Impedance (ohms) 8 DC Resistance (Re) (ohms) 6.25 Resonant Frequency (Fs) (Hz) 38 Voice Coil Inductance (Le) (mH) 0.15 Mechanical Q factor (Qms) 2.69 Electrical Q factor (Qes) 0.43 Total Q factor (Qts) 0.37 Moving Mass (Mms) (g) 17.8 without air load (Mmd) (g) 16.1 Suspension Compliance (Cms) (mm/N) 0.78 Mechanical Resistance (Rms) (kg/s) 1.80 Effective Piston Area (Sd) (cm2) 126.7 Suspension Equivalent Volume (Vas) (liters) 17.69 Force Factor (Bl) (T*m) 8.37 Efficiency (No) (%) 0.30 SPL (dB 1W/Z) 86.7 SPL dB 1W/Re) 87.5 EBP (Fs/Qes) 100 Motive Force (Bl^2/Re) 11.2

Anybody have any experience with these latest version of the WCF drivers?  Can I just drill new holes and drop them in?  Any xo changes required?

TIA for any help.

Jake

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=172571.0

These are sold but he lists the model number of the LRC woofer

I wonder if the 6.5” woofer used in the RM3o series 2 would work? It has a phase plug rather than a dome dust cap.

Perhaps others can chime in.

[Stimpy]

Hi Gang,

I have a VMPS LCR for my center channel speaker in my all VMPS home theater kit.  It has the lower grade drivers made of ? materials vs the woven carbon fiber cones of the Megawoofers.  I contacted Misco and they have a driver that is close overall with the obvious difference being six mounting screw holes vs four in the original.

https://store.miscospeakers.com/6-5-inch-red-carbon-fiber-woofer-with-phase-plug-bna-82130

Transducer Specifications (Klippel LPM) Nominal Impedance (ohms) 8 DC Resistance (Re) (ohms) 6.25 Resonant Frequency (Fs) (Hz) 38 Voice Coil Inductance (Le) (mH) 0.15 Mechanical Q factor (Qms) 2.69 Electrical Q factor (Qes) 0.43 Total Q factor (Qts) 0.37 Moving Mass (Mms) (g) 17.8 without air load (Mmd) (g) 16.1 Suspension Compliance (Cms) (mm/N) 0.78 Mechanical Resistance (Rms) (kg/s) 1.80 Effective Piston Area (Sd) (cm2) 126.7 Suspension Equivalent Volume (Vas) (liters) 17.69 Force Factor (Bl) (T*m) 8.37 Efficiency (No) (%) 0.30 SPL (dB 1W/Z) 86.7 SPL dB 1W/Re) 87.5 EBP (Fs/Qes) 100 Motive Force (Bl^2/Re) 11.2

Anybody have any experience with these latest version of the WCF drivers?  Can I just drill new holes and drop them in?  Any xo changes required?

TIA for any help.

Jake

When did Misco add a store...?  And with prices?  Awesome.

I've looked at that same driver too.  Very good specs.  Let us know how it sounds, if you give it a try?

Good luck.

[Stimpy]

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=172571.0

These are sold but he lists the model number of the LRC woofer

I wonder if the 6.5” woofer used in the RM3o series 2 would work? It has a phase plug rather than a dome dust cap.

Perhaps others can chime in.

Unfortunately, MCM/Newark no longer carries that driver.  The only carbon fiber driver they offer is an 8" woofer.

https://www.newark.com/mcm-audio-select/55-3550/8-carbon-fiber-die-cast-woofer/dp/40P9734?ost=carbon+fiber+woofer

[JakeJ]

I saw that.  8" won't fit.  Would have to design and build a new cabinet.

I plan on buying two of the drivers linked above from Misco.  I have started a discussion with one of their reps that knew Brian.

I am wondering if any one else is interest in acquiring one or two of these I would be wiling to put together a group buy to get the price down.  As one can see from the linked page once 5 or more are ordered the price comes down by $21.58.  That savings will pay for shipping with a few pennies left over.  Please contact me here on this thread, via PM, or email.

Jake

[GeorgeAb]

So if I understand correctly you want to replace the LRC’s MCM Audio Select 6 ½” woven carbon fiber cone woofer 55-1545 with the Misco LLC62W-8A Speakers? I may be wrong, but those are the only two drivers I know of being used by Brian in the LRC.

I have seen both drivers come from VMPS. I currently have the MCM’s in my LRC and it looks like the Misco would drop in. The Misco has a slightly smaller diameter of 6 1/4". I have noticed on the Misco drivers that came from the factory that there is an additional ring around drivers to make up for the additional cutout space in the housing. I had planned on replacing the MCM with Misco as I have a spare set, but never got around to it. I am actually quite happy with the MCM’s for the LRC application. 

I provided the MCM 55-1545 drivers specs here:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=113729.msg1811572#msg1811572

Misco LLC62W-8A Speakers:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=174756.msg1843573#msg1843573

Note that last time I purchased the LLC62W-8A from Misco they cost less ($90) than that replacement Misco provided. There minumum run was 4 drivers, but I sold the extra two on this forum at cost. I have purchased two sets of 4 drivers from Misco they had gone from $56 in 2018 to $90 in 2021. Other strategy is just wait for another LRC to come up for sale with drivers you want, likely wouldn't be much more than the cost of drivers.

PS   Jake, I emailed you the specs of the MCM and Misco drivers as the resolution is a tad ratty when I post on forum. 

[JakeJ]

Hi George,

Hoped you would catch this thread and chime in, thanks.

Here is the driver Misco has and as they list a single driver price I am assuming there is some stock in the inventory.  I'll ask if that's the case but I did ask if pairs were available and the answer was yes.

The drivers in my LCR are the matte plastic (polypropylene?) cones and the WCF cone drivers provide deeper and tighter bass.  Looking to get more body and mid-bass to fill in the lower registers.  Richen up speech primarily.

Apologies for the crappy cell phone photo. 

[GeorgeAb]

Jake,

Got it, I understand now.

You may want to send a PM to davidc1 as he may have a pair of MCM 1545. I sold him a couple of the MCM 1545 drivers, a neo panel, and an extra LCR cabinet I had laying around. As I recall he found a built up LRC and never got around to the project of building up the LRC. 

If you can live without your RM30 for a few days, you may consider removing a couple of the Misco drivers from the RM30 and throwing them into your LCR and sitting with it for a couple of days. If it gets you where you want to go, if it was me I would just special order 4 of the drivers from Misco that were made for your RM30 and the LCR. It would serve two purposes as you would get a performance improvement in your LCR and if you ever had a problem with your RM30 you would have spares. When the 4 drivers come, based on my experience you will be able to sell the 2 spares to someone. I looked at the specs of the Misco drivers they have in stock (BWF-6503) and appear to be a good replacement. Personally I would just be patient and have them make the LLC62W-8A drivers.

[JakeJ]

Excellent advice, George.  I will pursue that path as it ensures drop-in compatibility.

[GeorgeAb]

Jake,

You may hold off, I will get to why in a few. Is the outer hole diameter just shy of 7 1/2"? If yes, either driver should work (see below). The MCM Audio Select is 7 3/8" outside diameter. 

You motivated me as I have intended to drop my RM60 Misco spares into the LRC. If anything happens where I need a spare, there would be a trickle down of moving from LRC back to RM60, and then spare of MCM back to LRC. I have three MCM drivers so one spare if I lose a driver and sell the MCM's. The reason I never got to it was I was good with the MCM drivers and I spaced it. The specs are similar, but the Misco definitly have larger magnets and are just really nice.   

I just removed the drivers out of LRC and put in Misco. As I mentioned previously both drivers were used in the same cabinet. To account for different diameters of drivers the cabinet lips are extra wide so there is still enough material to screw down the Misco speakers. Below are some pics of what I am talking about. For the LRC that came out of VMPS with Misco drivers there is a spacer between outside of diameter of driver and cabinet cutout. Without spacer it looks a tad goofy, but with the grill all is good. Although I may look for spacer to glue in later. One of the pics shows how much wood is left for the Misco drivers, black dots are where the Misco cage holes line up.

Let me spend some time listening to the Misco drivers. I am not going to start until this evening and may need a day or two. Give me a day or two as I may be getting rid of the MCM Audio Selects. If I decide I will PM with price, they may be slightly higher than what I sold for previously as they have the VMPS phase plugs. The TV is two weeks old Sony X95K... loving it.

[JakeJ]

OK George, and thanks.  So the one on the left in your pic is the MCM?  Wooden phase plug?

[JakeJ]

I just had a convo with Dan @ Misco and the new driver cost is prohibitive so now I have my fingers crossed that you decide to sell me a pair.  I did reach out davidc1 and he has to locate his pair in a house that is under remodel.  I think that will be a while.  Fingers crossed!

[GeorgeAb]

OK George, and thanks.  So the one on the left in your pic is the MCM?  Wooden phase plug?

Yes, and yes. I looked at the picture of your LRC and based on the distance of the outer edge of the speaker diameter cutout to the top of speaker and grille holder your cutout appears to be 7 1/2".

[JakeJ]

The cutout in the face of the cabinet is 7.5".  Do I need to pull a driver to check the actual hole diameter?

[ZAKski288]

Brian use a trim ring to fill in the gap. Mine has seen better days. He also used three different drivers among the RM-30’s , LMC, and 626R.
Misco MC62W-8A , 28oz magnet with wood phase plug
MCM 55-1545
Misco LLC62W-8A, 40 oz magnet with aluminum phase plug

Misco MC62W-8A driver with 28oz  magnet, VMPS installed wood phase plug


LLC62W-8A driver with 40oz magnet

[JakeJ]

I'd love to get a pair of the units with the 40 ounce magnets.  But I'll take any WCF woofer over the plastic cone units.

[ZAKski288]

Jake, Misco offers this driver, has a paper cone, but you may still see if they can make you some of the
MC62W-8A carbon fiber cones. Just order them with no center cap and you can make the phase plug. They really sound close to the 40oz driver
Good luck.

[GeorgeAb]

Thank you Ken! Excellent information on the trim ring and driver replacement. 

[JakeJ]

Thanks for the info, ZAKski288.  I did contact Misco and this was their response:

Bold North Audio 82130 6.5" woofer
Quote
From: Dan Digre
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 4:45 PM
To: Jake Jacobson
Subject: RE: Bold North Audio 82130 6.5" woofer

Robert,

I checked our stock of parts and we don’t have voice coils in stock.  We’d need to order some more.  We’ll spend about $500 on the voice coils alone.  The drivers would be $120/each + the amortizing the coil cost. So two drivers $120 + $250 = $370/driver. 

If you can get others to order at the same time, the cost of the coils could be spread out.

Dan
End Quote

Pretty prohibitive and in fact I do not intend to spend that kind of money for the increase in performance.  No value.

I'll keep my fingers crossed that davidc1 finds the pair he has stashed in his garage and/or GeorgeAB's pair which may become available after he is satisfied with his driver change.  And if none of that works out my LCR does have bass drivers that I'm sure I can live with until another opportunity comes along.

[GeorgeAb]

Jake,

Show us a pic when you have installed the Misco speakers with VMPS phase plugs. Drivers are in today's mail.

I may get an updated quote from Misco on 4 drivers. I have purchased a few sets of four of these drivers from them in the past, they may be more generous with the price. They are probably getting 100 coils for $500 so having you pay for the entire lot for two coils seems unreasonable.