Felicia Balancing PowerConditioner Constructor's Thread

RonR · « **Reply #180 on:** 20 Jul 2005, 09:40 pm »

Thanks Phil,

I didn't know about the Felicia not needing a burn-in, but I do know the CVH mains leads benefit from having one.

Well, my patience ran out after only a few hours, and I used the Felicia to power my CD-PRO2 tonight. After about an hour of listening to a compressed sounding player (and thinking it was due to the lack of 0.1uF and 0.01uF bypass caps) something changed, and in the space of 5 minutes, it sounded completely different. I was suddenly immersed in music. Now I know what people mean when they say that their loudspeakers disappear!

I'm looking forward to listening with an aerovox and a full set of bypass caps!

Cheers,

Ron.

Occam · « **Reply #181 on:** 20 Jul 2005, 09:51 pm »

Ron,

Congratulations on your being the first non-Norte Americano to experience the delights of Felicia! Just a quick note.... obviously, balanced ac is not polarized, but the Auricap does have a relationship to the main cap its bypassing. Larry has found that when bypassing the 14uf Aerovox, the optimal orientation is, with the long axis of the Aerovox vertical and the solder spot oriented to the right, the Auricap should have its red lead on the top and the black on the bottom. With your present main cap, you'll have to experiment, but the optimal should be subjectively obvious.

As you've verified that your Felicia didn't blow up your CD, I'm very curious as to what Felicia will do for your GK-1.

Could you (in your spare time) post some voltage measurements?
What is the input voltage?
What is the output voltage, unloaded?
What is the output voltage when powering your CDPro2?
It would be very helpful to know the output voltages with various load voltages.... powering a 20, 40, 60watt incandescent bulb in a lamp. But please be careful, as lamp sockets (at least in the States) have what it expects to be the neutral connections unprotected as it expects no voltage on this wire, which is not the case for balanced power

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Paul

PS - You have a PM.

RonR · « **Reply #182 on:** 22 Jul 2005, 10:32 pm »

Hi Paul,

Here are the voltage measurements for the 240V Felicia:

Input: 248.7V (11:00 PM)
Unloaded: 238.5V
CD-PRO2: 232V
GK-1R: 229V
40W Bulb: 228V
60W Bulb: 221.5V

I'll probably get to listen to the Felicia'd GK-1 tomorrow, although it will be with CD only, as my Turntable motor is currently being repaired in Germany.

Cheers,

Ron.

randytsuch · « **Reply #183 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 12:31 am »

Finally got around to ordering my transformers, and they are on backorder.

I guess a bunch of people from Audiocircle are buying these transformers.

I talked to BG today, and they thought they were going to have some more, but they got the wrong part, so now they are waiting for some guy to remove them from a boards, and send them in to BG.

Randy

Gordy · « **Reply #184 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 02:42 am »

I spoke to Bill G. today as well! He told me he's been prodding his buddy who has the trannies or has access to them, to get moving as he's got plenty of orders for them. In fact Bill told his buddy yesterday that if he doesn't get moving, he'll blow his house up... so he expects to have them in about a month...

doug s. · « **Reply #185 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 04:40 am »

hey gordy, that quote was from ben franklin, & it went more like this:

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security, deserves neither and will lose both. "

doug s.

Occam · « **Reply #186 on:** 24 Jul 2005, 06:34 pm »

Randy,

Billy at BGMicro contacted me about the transformer situation, and told me he had the same transformers, but were 36v rather than the 30v versions. I told him they were fine and actually might be prefferable. Unfortuneately, he wasn't aware that Felicia required dual 115v primary windings for balanced operation, and I didn't have the foresight to ask....
So Mgalusha bought six of them and sadly discovered they wouldn't work for balanced operation. (very sorry

about that Mike)
Hopefully, BG will have more of the appropriate transformers within a month. I've sent an email to Billy clarifying the requirements.

Regards,
Paul

randytsuch · « **Reply #187 on:** 24 Jul 2005, 07:18 pm »

Quote from: Occam

Randy,

Billy at BGMicro contacted me about the transformer situation, and told me he had the same transformers, but were 36v rather than the 30v versions. I told him they were fine and actually might be prefferable. Unfortuneately, he wasn't aware that Felicia required dual 115v primary windings for balanced operation, and I didn't have the foresight to ask....
So Mgalusha bought six of them and sadly discovered they wouldn't work for balanced operation. (very sorry about that Mike)
Hopefully, ...

Thanks for the info.
I am not in a hurry, so I don't mind waiting a month for these. I have enough other projects to work on, and no free time anyway.

Randy

mgalusha · « **Reply #188 on:** 24 Jul 2005, 10:24 pm »

Not your fault Paul, I'm just hoping Billy G. will take them back. The receipt said money back guarantee, so I'm pretty sure all will be well but it would have been nice to assemble my Felicia today.

Mike

Gordy · « **Reply #189 on:** 25 Jul 2005, 02:07 am »

I've found some nice humidor boxes that will fit two Felicia's if you look for the 75 and up counts. The first link has a relatively inexpensive one going off every 6 hrs. or so, don't bid over the minimum...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6195029067&category=11675

This site has an easy 20 to 30 boxes to choose from, some very nice indeedy!!! $40.00 to $125.00, but inlaid, burl, rosewood etc....

http://stores.ebay.com/Humidor-Auctions_Cigar-Humidors_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfclZ4QQftidZ2QQtZkm

Occam · « **Reply #190 on:** 26 Jul 2005, 08:24 pm »

General Note -
Tianguis and Phil Townsend have been expeimenting with main 'betwixt and between caps'. The current reccomendation [used with the specific Signal Transformer A41], is now a 20uf Solen (Axon, SCR) metalized polypropolene 'fastcaps'. At least for non-silly money, $5-$8. As the secondaries are running at 15 odd vAC, any voltage rating, 250vDC being the lowest common rating, should work fine.
This is a mandatory upgrade, unless one has found (and do please post your findings) a better cap for this purpose.

Please note a major revision (7/26/05) has been done to the 1st post of this thread addressing the above, as well as current bypass reccomendations.

dnewcomer · « **Reply #191 on:** 31 Jul 2005, 02:49 pm »

well, there always seems to be one person in threads like this who just doesn't get, I will suck in my pride and volunteer to be the dummy

I just can't seem to figure out from the pictures or schematics, how to wire up the trannies. (at least to get the meter readings described, I end up with 30v on one leg to ground and like 5v on the other, and 120v across, leaving me totally confused.)

could someone dumb down the wiring instructions, and just describe how the terminals on the trannies are wired. I would really appreciate it, and I sure there would be others that might benefit also.

Really, would like to get these babies up and going, since I have been
waited on the trannies since July 1st and they just arrived yesterday( although delivered to my astonished neighbor down the street)

thanks, in advance.

Occam · « **Reply #192 on:** 31 Jul 2005, 04:22 pm »

Quote from: dnewcomer

well, there always seems to be one person in threads like this who just doesn't get, I will suck in my pride and volunteer to be the dummy

I just can't seem to figure out from the pictures or schematics, how to wire up the trannies. (at least to get the meter readings described, I end up with 30v on one leg to ground and like 5v on the other, and 120v across, leaving me totally confused.)

could someone dumb down the wiring instructions, and just describe how the terminals on the trannies are wired. ...

Please note that this project involves mains voltages and can kill you. Unless you follow accepted safety precautions (and implictly understand them) do not! undertake this project. You must have a meter capable of reading at least 200VAC to implement this project.

New - not a silly or dumb question at all. I think I can help, specifically since I've had the same problem m'self. The trick in anything electronic, is not making mistakes, its learning from mistakes, resolving them, and going on to make completely original, new mistakes.
Here is the wiring diagram of the Signal Transformer used-

DO NOT PLUG THE FELICIA INTO THE WALL OUTLET UNTIL YOU ARE INSTRUCTED TO BELOW!

First, unplug the Felicia from the wall. Next, with your multimeter set to a low resistances reading range (ohms) measure the resistance on the output transformer between terminals 1&2 and then 5&6. They both should measure around 3.5 ohms. If you measure an open (infinite resistance) you've cut a winding when you rewired the transformers from parallel to series. I've done it myself, so call me at the phone # I'll send you in PM). Assuming thats ok, measure between 1&6 which should measure about 7ohms. If the individual winding are ok but not the combined measurement, you forgot to put a jumper between 2&5 to make a series connection. [or between 2or3 and 4or5, assuming you left the existing jumpers on the transformer, when you removed the jumpers from 1to5 and 2to6, which was necessary when rewiring from parallel to series operation] You should also do these measurements on the input transformer to verify correct wiring on the input transformer.

I assume the measurements will be ok as you did measure 120vAC on the output. Which brings me to the most probable source of your problem, which is not connecting the center tap of the output windings of the output transformer to both the ground prong from your wall outlet and the ground wire of your output outlet or cord.

First, make sure that the outlet that you're connecting the Felicia to actually has a working ground. Setting your multimeter to at least 200vAC setting, measure the voltage from the narrow opening on the outlet and the grounding hole on the socket. If that doesn't measure 120vAC+-, see if you have 120vAC between the two slots. If you do, your outlet has reversed hot and neutral. Now check the voltage between the wide slot and the ground hole. If you don't measure 120vAC, you have no ground on your outlet, and you cannot generate balanced power until you have an electrican rewire the outlet properly. You can generate balanced power with hot and neutral reversed if you've a proper ground, but you should have it fixed for safety reasons.

Assuming you've gotten this far, lets try and fix the most probable problem -
Both the input ground from your wall outlet via the input cord/inlet and the and the ground from your cord/outlet ground exiting Felicia must be connected to the ceter tap of the output windings of the output transformer. That center tap is terminal 2 and/or 5 [or 3or4 if you left the links connecting 2-3 and 4-5]. If this ground connection is not made, you've 'isolated' power, which is preferred for hospital use, but doesn't give you balanced power.

With Felicia unplugged from the wall and any component, set your multimeter to ohms. Measure between the ground on the input side (the wall plug on the end of your input cord/iec inlet and the 'center tap' of the output windings of the output transformer. If you don't measure '0' ohms, fix it or call me. Do the same for that center winding tap and the output ground. If not '0', fix it ... or call me.

Assuming everything checks out, and you've fixed any problems, now you can plug Felicia into the wall outlet. Stetting your multimeter to 200Vac+, you should measure on your output about 120vAC between the blades and about 60vAC between either blade and ground. If so, you're good to go, otherwise, CALL ME!

Apologies for the awkward writing. Obviously, I wan't an English major....

dnewcomer · « **Reply #193 on:** 31 Jul 2005, 05:12 pm »

almost had it. had ground on output tranny connected to 3-4, which were disconnected from 2 and 5 ( funny thing was i measured the voltage between 1-2 and 5-6 and got 60 volts )

final question? I was using a grounding bar, to connect all the grounds. it is ok to connect 2 and 5 from the output tran. to the ground bar, then to the ground on the outlet ( or cord ) or should the input grounds be seperate from the output grounds? ( hope thats not a stupid question)

Occam · « **Reply #194 on:** 31 Jul 2005, 05:38 pm »

dnew - taking all the grounds to a central point is an excellent approach, as its a classical 'star ground', or if not a single central point, a small bar.

Basil · « **Reply #195 on:** 2 Aug 2005, 11:58 am »

This is a very interesting thread and I must try it out.

Here in Denmark, we have a couple of firms there made a lot of "trannies" and I will order a few to start with.
I am thinking to order a transformer with centertap and 230V in at the primaries and 18V at the secondaries 150-170VA, but how many watts can this transformer get used to?

Is it better to get 24V at the secondaries instead of 18V or doesn`t matter?

We used 230-240V(hot) and a neutral(cold) connections here, but I don`t have ground in my apartment and it`s not unusually here.

Wouldn`t I get the Felicias sound improvement if I just connect the centertap from each Felicias(second transformers) to a star ground instead?

Best Regards from Basil

Occam · « **Reply #196 on:** 2 Aug 2005, 12:41 pm »

Hello Basil,

Welcome to Audiocilcles.
A couple of point with regards to choosing transformers for Felicia -

1.EI core transformers are prefferable to toroids because of their limited bandwidth.
2. They should be either split bobbin, or have grounded shielding between primary and secondary to limit capacitive coupling of noise.
3. Higher secondary voltages have less losses, but require higher rated capacitors.
4. The optimal capacitance accross the secondaries is dependant on the specific charateristics of the chosen transformers. The 15-20uf specified is specific to the A41 transfomers, available surplus here in the States. Other transformers will require experimentation.
5. The benefits of balanced power requires a real electrical grounding of the center tap -
http://www.equitech.com/articles/articles.html
The power conditioning is still available without the electrical ground (isolated power), which is substantial, but you might derive a proper electrical ground by connecting to a cold water pipe or radiator (assuming they are always filled with water, and they maintain a continuous electrical connection that ultimately goes into the soil. Please note that I'm not familiar with electrical codes outside the US.

I'm leaving for the beach momentarily (its my 30th wedding anniversery

) and will be back on Friday to continue the conversation, if you wish.

Regards,
Paul

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #197 on:** 3 Aug 2005, 03:40 am »

Occam :

Quote

I'm leaving for the beach momentarily (its my 30th wedding anniversery )

[/list:u]

Gordy · « **Reply #198 on:** 3 Aug 2005, 03:50 am »

Thank you Chris,

Paul has given much of his time and knowledge, it's about time one of us was able to return in kind, just hope he heard ya

Occam · « **Reply #199 on:** 3 Aug 2005, 07:09 pm »

Basil,

A quick follow up. (I'm posting from the Cape May library as my wife is handbage shopping). If you've primaries on your transformers, i.e. 115-115v, to produce 230vct, no downrating of the transformers is required. The only real constraint is the temperature rise you feel comfortable with. Most transfomers are specified for a 30-40degree temperature rise for the rated power. Actually, I should stop posting as my lunch was lubricatied by 5 (Becks)beers....

Gordy, Chris,
Thanks for the feicitations. She Who Must Be Obeyed really does deserve beatification for thirty+ years of putting up with me. I'm a lucky man..... But obviously, I'd only post this admission if I was pretty snockered.