[aceinc]

I have a pair of Klipsch Cornwall IIIs I would be interested in getting crossovers done for. Unfortunately I live in South Florida near Miami. This is about 1,453 miles from GR-Research. CW IIIs are large speakers, so shipping would be prohibitive. I have considered a road trip, but I have a job and a wife, and that would be tough to accomplish.

So what can be done?

Just spit balling here, but it would be great if some form of remote analysis could be done. One scenario is if the analysis could be done by REW and perhaps Zoom or FaceTime. Another alternative would be if there was a local(ish) company with the analysis tools which Danny could work with to get the data needed.

The above assumes the analysis phase is a one & done scenario. If the analysis is an iterative process where parts are swapped out and retested this would not work.

What are your thoughts Danny? I am sure this has come up more than once.

I posted about the CW IIIs here https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=174428.msg1841147

[Hobbsmeerkat]

The initial measuring phase is one and done. But without the same tools and settings we use, it's not very informative as REW mostly measures a room response, so not very useful for any meaningful observations.

But the actual crossover design work is very much an iterative process.
Add parts, take a measurement, add/change parts take another measurement, etc. Check phase of drivers, add/change parts as needed, etc etc.

The size of the larger Heritage models is very much the reason we haven't seen any of them other than the Forte III and LaScala, both of which were driven out to us.
Others have offered but shipping costs/risks were too much.

That said beyond the crossovers, the cabinets also need a lot of help. The only bracing is two 1x4" braces between the woofer and mid horn. They really need to have the same kind of bracing we recommend for the Forte IIIs along with 4 sheets of norez possibly more..

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=166996.msg1773331#msg1773331

It won't fix any issues with the crossover, but will go along way to improve the bass response and remove a lot of the boxy nature of the cabinet.

[aceinc]

The initial measuring phase is one and done. But without the same tools and settings we use, it's not very informative as REW mostly measures a room response, so not very useful for any meaningful observations.

But the actual crossover design work is very much an iterative process.
Add parts, take a measurement, add/change parts take another measurement, etc. Check phase of drivers, add/change parts as needed, etc etc.

The size of the larger Heritage models is very much the reason we haven't seen any of them other than the Forte III and LaScala, both of which were driven out to us.
Others have offered but shipping costs/risks were too much.

That said beyond the crossovers, the cabinets also need a lot of help. The only bracing is two 1x4" braces between the woofer and mid horn. They really need to have the same kind of bracing we recommend for the Forte IIIs along with 4 sheets of norez possibly more..

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=166996.msg1773331#msg1773331

It won't fix any issues with the crossover, but will go along way to improve the bass response and remove a lot of the boxy nature of the cabinet.

Thanks for the heads up on the Xover design. While I am no expert, I believe REW has some capabilities for speaker measurement. I believe it can do gated measurements so that room interactions can be negated. I have never done this, and I probably should educate myself on this feature.

As far as bracing, if you review the thread I provided a link for in my original post you will notice I have both braced the cabinet and "deadened" the ringing on the woofer & squawker.

[E-Zee]

Forgive me for thinking out loud here, but if I were brainstorming to get this done, I would approach it by trying to identify someone in Texas, closer to GR, who has the same speakers.  Compensate that person in some way for their time and effort to loan and deliver a speaker to Danny.  Maybe on A Klipsch forum, or some other forum you can find someone geographically close to GR. 

Your time and effort of driving or shipping would have to be worth at least $150.  If you found someone close, and maybe they have similar interest, perhaps a little incentive offered to them gets it done. If I was tasked with making this desire happen, that's where I'd start, looking for an owner of that speaker, already located within a couple hours drive.

[aceinc]

Forgive me for thinking out loud here, but if I were brainstorming to get this done, I would approach it by trying to identify someone in Texas, closer to GR, who has the same speakers.  Compensate that person in some way for their time and effort to loan and deliver a speaker to Danny.  Maybe on A Klipsch forum, or some other forum you can find someone geographically close to GR. 

Your time and effort of driving or shipping would have to be worth at least $150.  If you found someone close, and maybe they have similar interest, perhaps a little incentive offered to them gets it done. If I was tasked with making this desire happen, that's where I'd start, looking for an owner of that speaker, already located within a couple hours drive.

No forgiveness needed. The reason for posting in forums is to get other folks ideas.

I can check a Klipsch forum I am a member of, but the folks there tend to be "Any changes to a Klipsch speaker will destroy the unique sound and is heresy."

[Tyson]

Just curious - what is the cost to send a Cornwall via freight to Texas?

[aceinc]

Forgive me for thinking out loud here, but if I were brainstorming to get this done, I would approach it by trying to identify someone in Texas, closer to GR, who has the same speakers.  Compensate that person in some way for their time and effort to loan and deliver a speaker to Danny.  Maybe on A Klipsch forum, or some other forum you can find someone geographically close to GR. 

Your time and effort of driving or shipping would have to be worth at least $150.  If you found someone close, and maybe they have similar interest, perhaps a little incentive offered to them gets it done. If I was tasked with making this desire happen, that's where I'd start, looking for an owner of that speaker, already located within a couple hours drive.

I took your idea, and posted on the Klipsch forum, here is an example (egregious) of comments I have gotten;

What exactly does he "fix" with the networks?

Or is it just a parts swap for boutique/expensive parts?

I'd be very leery of doing anything to them as I highly doubt anything in your networks are out of their service life and drifted in specs. Really the only thing that may need to be changed out after several thousand hours of usage is electrolytic caps but you can order them anywhere.

I watched a few of his videos and could only cringe because his understanding of simple electronic concepts are non-existent which worries me because to redesign networks properly takes quite a bit of knowledge. That and the video I watched he did a tier of upgrades and as each upgrade part went up in "performance" so did the price of the part. That's not how it works. To make an improvement one needs to point out a deficiency first then address that specific problem by a very specific solution. He seems to use the same anecdotal language to describe how the more expensive part sounds.

I have been an electrical engineer for decades so this isn't just because I don't like him or something silly, I have peoples best interests in my thoughts and I don't see what he does as improving anything. Passive components aren't mythic devices with mystical qualities, they have real tangible properties and the Klipsch engineers did just fine with their parts selection. Don't believe your lying eyes when it comes to electronic parts. Or in his case, his lying ears. If something is vastly different show us a measurement of less distortion. His only proof of improvement is him saying "has less smear", he loves that word, the more expensive the capacitor the less "smear" it gives. Whatever that means as it's not a technical definition. He just made it up to sell stuff.

[la80vette]

Uh huh........so how much is your shipping to Texas?

[Hobbsmeerkat]

No surprises there tbh.

[aceinc]

Just curious - what is the cost to send a Cornwall via freight to Texas?

I am not sure, but I would need to buy or construct boxes as well as ship them.

To drive them I would need to rent a mini-van.

[la80vette]

Cornwall III are great speakers. I'd love to have a pair of those. Watching that owner's face when Danny did the Forte upgrade was the best.
I'd encourage you to block out some time and take a ride to Texas.

[Early B.]

Have you considered upgrading some of the parts of the original crossover? You can easily do that yourself and you'd probably experience a significant boost in performance.   

[aceinc]

I mentioned above that I believe REW can be used for measuring speakers (not just rooms) but hat I had really never done this. I poked around a bit and aske over on the AV Nirvana REW forum and they gave me this link, which I intend to review;

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-make-quasi-anechoic-speaker-measurements-spinoramas-with-rew-and-vituixcad.21860/

[Folsom]

I took your idea, and posted on the Klipsch forum, here is an example (egregious) of comments I have gotten;

What exactly does he "fix" with the networks?

Or is it just a parts swap for boutique/expensive parts?

I'd be very leery of doing anything to them as I highly doubt anything in your networks are out of their service life and drifted in specs. Really the only thing that may need to be changed out after several thousand hours of usage is electrolytic caps but you can order them anywhere.

I watched a few of his videos and could only cringe because his understanding of simple electronic concepts are non-existent which worries me because to redesign networks properly takes quite a bit of knowledge. That and the video I watched he did a tier of upgrades and as each upgrade part went up in "performance" so did the price of the part. That's not how it works. To make an improvement one needs to point out a deficiency first then address that specific problem by a very specific solution. He seems to use the same anecdotal language to describe how the more expensive part sounds.

I have been an electrical engineer for decades so this isn't just because I don't like him or something silly, I have peoples best interests in my thoughts and I don't see what he does as improving anything. Passive components aren't mythic devices with mystical qualities, they have real tangible properties and the Klipsch engineers did just fine with their parts selection. Don't believe your lying eyes when it comes to electronic parts. Or in his case, his lying ears. If something is vastly different show us a measurement of less distortion. His only proof of improvement is him saying "has less smear", he loves that word, the more expensive the capacitor the less "smear" it gives. Whatever that means as it's not a technical definition. He just made it up to sell stuff.

So Danny making them measure differently - objectively better - has no merit? This makes no sense.

[Tyson]

So Danny making them measure differently - objectively better - has no merit? This makes no sense.

The basic idea they have is that the speakers were voiced like that deliberately and any change is going to mess with that voicing.

As opinions go, it’s not really a good one. But that is the unstated logic.

[dduval]

So Danny making them measure differently - objectively better - has no merit? This makes no sense.

So funny, when I posted in the Klipsch forum asking about the RP-8000 crossover upgrade, moderators went nuts and completely deleted every post I made, LOL! They definitely don’t want anyone modifying (improving) their speakers.

[Hobbsmeerkat]

The basic idea they have is that the speakers were voiced like that deliberately and any change is going to mess with that voicing.

As opinions go, it’s not really a good one. But that is the unstated logic.

Pretty much this.

But man we sure do get a lot of Klipsch speakers sent in...

We've had a few people asking us about Heresy and Cornwall IVs the last couple days. Not to mention the V2s of the RP line..

Shipping is always the killer on those bigger models.
The Forte 3 Tyson drove down as were the RF7-III & RC64-III.
Same happened with the LaScala that was brought to us. But the customer decided to get NX-Tremes instead so we never built an upgrade for that model, but man do they have issues...

[dduval]

They sure do have issues! I ran audyssey today on my RP-8060’s and sure
Enough there is huge dip in the mid range frequency. 🤦‍♂️ Right where Danny said.

[aceinc]

So funny, when I posted in the Klipsch forum asking about the RP-8000 crossover upgrade, moderators went nuts and completely deleted every post I made, LOL! They definitely don’t want anyone modifying (improving) their speakers.

They haven't deleted my post yet. But there are a few yahoos who waste peoples time with irrelevant attempts to be funny.

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/211314-gr-research-danny-richie-crossover-for-cornwall-iii/

[mkane]

 We tried 2 different sets, CW1 & CW2. Threw lots of good $$$$$$away trying to like them. Crossovers, drivers, you name it. There gone now.