[Bioman65]

I currently own a Rega P3.  What in the VPI line would be a significant upgrade?  Budget is not a major factor.  I like the Rega, but want the flexibility that VPI turntables appear to bring (multiple tone arms, upgrade path).  Please no suggestions at this point for XY or Z brands.  Thanks in advance.

[Craig B]

I'd say anything from the Scout model on up, depending on how much you want to spend. I'd avoid the entry level ones - the Cliffwood and the Player - and concentrate on what the company calls their "production" models. I think currently those are the Scout 21, Prime 21, and Signature 21, but you might be able to find other recent models that slot roughly into those places in the lineup in stock at different dealers, or even one-offs made for specific vendors, like Upscale Audio. If you don't have a dealer nearby, Upscale, MusicDirect and Elusive Disc all sell VPI.

[S Clark]

VPI is a high volume seller, so there's always options to buy several models used.  Unless damaged in shipping, it's hard to wear out a turntable. 

[orthobiz]

I love my HW-19. Lots of upgrade paths available.

Paul

[Bioman65]

Thanks all, for reinforcing my assumptions.  Have the cash so I am looking at the Avenger with a gimbaled fat boy 12" and a Hanna ML cartridge.  AS mentioned you can always upgrade from there if the mood hits.  Leery of used, several not-so-good experiences.

[Letitroll98]

That would be a massive upgrade from a P3, the word significant seems understated.

[Wayner]

I believe that VPI makes the MOFI turntables and they get some high praise, but I think a nice up the ladder Scout would be nice, however, I am not a fan of the uni-pivot tonearm and would suggest getting the gimballed arm.

If cost is not that big a deal, then look at the Prime Signature 21. Pretty awesome turntable and it will not sound like your P3.

[Bioman65]

Agree with gimbaled tonearm.

[toocool4]

Wayner the Scout & Prime Signature series are below the Avenger series which Bioman65 has already indicated an interest in.

[Bioman65]

I agree with the general assertion that other VPI models short of the Avenger series would be a step up from my Rega.  As a bit of background, I just upgraded my digital front end to a "practical end game DAC"; HUGE improvements.
I am looking to do similar while I have the funds for the analog end.   So TT/Tonearm/Cartridge and Phono Pre all at once.  I have a very, very generous budget that would not usually be in the cards; so want to get a setup to grow old with (I am pretty old already)    Just don't want to end up with "could have, should have" regrets as later I won't be able to afford this.

Also looking at Dr. Feickert Blackbird with a Kuzma tonearm, a similar price range.

So looking to find the sweet spot in the offerings of several manufacturers, then start comparing relative performance.

[TomS]

I agree with the general assertion that other VPI models short of the Avenger series would be a step up from my Rega.  As a bit of background, I just upgraded my digital front end to a "practical end game DAC"; HUGE improvements.
I am looking to do similar while I have the funds for the analog end.   So TT/Tonearm/Cartridge and Phono Pre all at once.  I have a very, very generous budget that would not usually be in the cards; so want to get a setup to grow old with (I am pretty old already)    Just don't want to end up with "could have, should have" regrets as later I won't be able to afford this.

Also looking at Dr. Feickert Blackbird with a Kuzma tonearm, a similar price range.

So looking to find the sweet spot in the offerings of several manufacturers, then start comparing relative performance.

I was in a similar situation, really wanted an end game TT, looked at some of those choices. I bought an Acoustic Signature Typhoon Neo TT, Acoustical Systems Aquilar tone arm, and DS Audio 003 optical cartridge/equalizer. It accepts up to 3 arms if you want, very simple to set up. I've had 3 VPI's over the years, though much less costly than this one, none of them moved me the way the Typhoon does and they were finicky. Unfortunately the Typhoon made the DAC I thought to be quite good, sound almost mediocre.

[Bioman65]

Very nice setup Tom

[vintage9594]

Agreed with above post, my only VPI table was a Prime Signature and it was uneventful and short lived time in my system.  I enjoyed my updated Garrard 301 with 12” Schick Tonearm and Koetsu Urishi and Rosewood Signature cartridges more.  There are several table arm combos available that will better the VPI table/arm combos you are looking at.  My last table was Platine Verdier/Kuzma 4 point with a Ortofon MC Anna  for reference before I got out of vinyl.  Good luck on your search and do your due diligence before your pull the trigger on a purchase.

[Folsom]

Not a fan of VPI/Music Hall/Rega.

Vintage idlers/TD124/certain ones < EMT 927 < Micro Seiki 5000 < Micro Seiki 8000 < AS2000

Production units is a tough call.

[lazydays]

I was in a similar situation, really wanted an end game TT, looked at some of those choices. I bought an Acoustic Signature Typhoon Neo TT, Acoustical Systems Aquilar tone arm, and DS Audio 003 optical cartridge/equalizer. It accepts up to 3 arms if you want, very simple to set up. I've had 3 VPI's over the years, though much less costly than this one, none of them moved me the way the Typhoon does and they were finicky. Unfortunately the Typhoon made the DAC I thought to be quite good, sound almost mediocre.

Years back I bought a Final Tool turntable out of an estate sale, and have never looked back. When I bought it, I was looking at VPI turn tables and maybe a modded SL1200 from Technics. If I were shopping for a new table today it would be an Acoustic Signature again. They are so over built that they'll probably out live you!
gary

[RonP]

Not a fan of VPI/Music Hall

+1

[Audiosaurusrex]

Agreed, I just wasn't enamored with the VPI line. Acoustic Signature Sells Itself and is my end game TT.

[dlaloum]

Before upgrading the TT, I would look closely at the "whole system"...

The rack, stand, plinth or platform and how vibration free they are can have substantial impact on sound quality...

turn off motors, place needle gently on the platter, record the output to analyse what is coming through - stomp around the room, play some music (from sources other than the TT obviously) - you might even want to run some test sweeps - which will show up problematic resonant frequencies.

This will soon show what feeds back through into the needle that shouldn't (typically, loads!!!).

Then you can take a close look at arm/cartridge matching, and if using MM cartridges, cartridge loading.

Tuning the effective mass / cartridge compliance match (by varying the mass or varying the compliance...) is another area where there are often substantial missed gains.

With MM/MI (any high inductance cartridges) - there is loads of room for tuning with the loading - but it requires the right low C cables and a phono stage with C loading that can be removed from the circuit, and R loading that can range from circa 20k to 70k ohm.


All of these tuning areas are applicable to any/all turntables regardless of whether they are an economy basic model, or a high end giant - the issues are exactly the same!

a $20k TT can be made to sound like a budget $500 TT.... and often does, for these very reasons!

Also most of these tuning areas are custom to YOUR specific system and YOUR specific combination of room, floor, arm, cartridge, phono stage etc...

So short of going to a high $$$ bespoke consultant (who comes in and tunes all these aspects within your home setup, typically taking at least several full time days to do so - with matching $/hr pricing) .... This is something you have to do on your own, and spending more $ on any of the components will not help to tune it in.

It is definitely a bit of (a lot of !) a journey - with lots of learning on the way.

But a Rega P3 is a good basic turntable - and you will most likely get far more from tuning it, than you would from upgrading to a better TT... while leaving system flaws untouched. (barring fluke luck of course.... sometimes an upgrade coincidentally resolves some of these issues, via differing arm mass, differing cartridge compliance, differing TT suspension etc... etc... - but in most cases, it is just that, fluke luck)

Measuring and understanding your system, can resolve the issues for good, and then enable the maximum performance to be extracted from any subsequent TT upgrades.

[SET Man]

I currently own a Rega P3.  What in the VPI line would be a significant upgrade?  Budget is not a major factor.  I like the Rega, but want the flexibility that VPI turntables appear to bring (multiple tone arms, upgrade path).  Please no suggestions at this point for XY or Z brands.  Thanks in advance.

Hey!

     My first high end turntable was Rega Planar 2 bought new back in 1997 I think. I still have it, I took the great RB250 tonearm out to be use in my current turntable.

    I don't have much experience with many turntable over the years. I feel that Rega got a unique sound. And a few problems at least with older Rega TTs, not sure how the current ones are but my Planar 2 would hum with MI Grado carts, speed stability was not the best. It was quite a bit of a shock going from a lightweight Planar 2 to heavier turntable... in my case it was 1972 Transcriptors Hydraulic Reference. Yes, a much older turntable with more mass and surprisingly better speed stability.

    Not sure how much is your budget and why you are drawn into VIP turntables. I'll be honest, I've never been impressed with any VIP turntables that I've encountered. But if your budget allowed there are two turntables I can highly recommended, the not much talked about Helius Viridia or the less expensive Alexia. I heard the more expensive Viridia at a dealer locally here in NYC last year and was very taken by it. Rarely that happened to me, but the music seems to just flow naturally out of that turntable and the turntable seems to just disappeared. Hard to explain, sadly I couldn't afford the Viridia so I bought the less expensive Alexia of which I'm very happy with.

     Anyway, there hundreds of turntables out there, making a big decision on one is not easy. And hearing one in person is not easy these days. So, do your research and there are lots of experience with turntables than I do here to help. Good luck and keep us posted. OK, back to spinning some LPs on my Helius Alexia.

Buddy 

   

[jsaliga]

I just sent a Rega P10/Apheta 3 MC combo back because it had issues.  Does that mean I think Regas are bad?  No, it doesn't.  I had a P7 about 15 years ago and really liked it a lot.  But after sending the Rega back I decided to go in a different direction and ordered a VPI Prime Signature 21 in Rosewood with a fatboy gimbal tonearm.  Yeah, I know there are some folks who really don't like VPI, but they don't get a vote concerning how I spend my money.  I'm buying the turntable to please me, not them.  What I never understood is why someone would think that just because they don't like something others shouldn't or won't like it too.  Indeed, my dislike of a particular turntable should not dissuade someone else from buying one if it checks all of the boxes for them.  VPI was founded in 1978 and has been making turntables for about 42 years.  They must be doing something right.  That said, you can't please everyone.

It is fair to note that while I have liked a lot of VPI turntables, I was never a fan of their unipivot tonearms.  And that has held me back from buying a VPI turntable for a very long time.  I have a friend with a VPI, but don't recall which model, that has a unipivot arm.  I was a bit stunned by how much it wobbled when cuing it.  But in fairness once the stylus dropped into the run-in groove of an album it seemed perfectly stable.  Sounded very good.  But I was never able to get that image of a wobbly tonearm out of my head, and so I crossed VPI off of my list.  Another friend has a HW-19 MKIII with an SME IV tonearm that I have always liked a lot. But that deck was discontinued a long time ago.  The gimbaled 3D printed tonearm is what put VPI back in the running as a potential choice of turntable for me.  And for those with a VPI unipiviot tonearm who would like to see that wobble gone, the company has a solution for you in the form of a dual pivot assembly that is very reasonably priced at $185.

Frankly, I think the choice of which particular turntable one should buy is a bit less important than where one should buy their next turntable from.  As has been noted elsewhere, trying get out to a shop to audition a turntable you may find of interest may be no easy feat, and for some it's impossible.  Also, an in-store audition may prove to be of limited value and whatever you end up buying may not sound the same at home after it has been integrated into your system.  I practically live in the middle of nowhere and the nearest audiophile boutique is more than a 3 hour drive away.  I just don't have that kind of time to be hauling my behind to a shop to go gawk at gear.  So the vast majority of what I buy comes from online dealers.  I have no skin in what someone else chooses to buy, so the best advice I can give someone is to buy from a dealer with customer-friendly policies that will mitigate your risk of buying audio gear.  I have always felt that dealers should assume that risk as part of the cost of doing business.  Being stuck with expensive gear you aren't happy with and then having to sell it at a considerable loss should not be part of the price you pay of being an audiophile.  I will only buy from dealers that have customer satisfaction and liberal return policies with NO restocking fees (provided you send the item back in the same condition you received it).

--Jerome