[mkH]

Hello All,
I'm a budding music listener. I am on the fence about a different will add to my system's sound. I am currently using the original GEN1 Emotiva XPA 2, I like its overall sound. Looking for something with less noise/hum richer midrange, more dense/warm tone and possibly heftier bass slam/punch. A reviewer mentioned "subterranean bass" with a Pass labs. I am not sure which AVA model will get me closest to that sound or if I will be better served by a Parasound A23+ or 21. From the AVA camp SET400 or DVA 225 monos are on my list of potentials. Does anyone have experience or opinions with any these, or anything else that they really like?
Thank you much for any guidance!

[FullRangeMan]

Welcome to AC 

[mkH]

  Thank you

[Phil A]

Welcome as well

[WGH]

The Vision SET 400 will give you everything you are looking for and more. The DVA M225 has XLR inputs, does your preamp have XLR output? If not then you would need the AVA DVA R2X to realize the full potential of the DVA M225.

I use a SET 400, sometimes I forget to turn on the subwoofer and never miss it. I.Greyhound Fan wrote a review:

"I also own a Parasound A21 amp which now sells for about $2300.  The A21 does not even come close to the SET's performance.  The A21 sounds midfi in comparison."

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=158752.0

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Hello All,
I'm a budding music listener. I am on the fence about a different will add to my system's sound. I am currently using the original GEN1 Emotiva XPA 2, I like its overall sound. Looking for something with less noise/hum richer midrange, more dense/warm tone and possibly heftier bass slam/punch. A reviewer mentioned "subterranean bass" with a Pass labs. I am not sure which AVA model will get me closest to that sound or if I will be better served by a Parasound A23+ or 21. From the AVA camp SET400 or DVA 225 monos are on my list of potentials. Does anyone have experience or opinions with any these, or anything else that they really like?
Thank you much for any guidance!

Hi, I own a Pass X250 amp, have owned a  Parasound A21 Old version and I have reviewed the SET 400 and DVA 225's for Frank.
The Pass has the most powerful bass of the bunch but it is slower as is typical of Pass.  The A21 has very tight and fast bass but not nearly as  thunderous as the Pass.  Both AVA amps have better bass than the A21.  The 225 is more powerful than the SET 400 for lack  of a better term.  I heard the A21+ but was auditioning speakers with my son so I don't recall how it sounded.  If it came down  to an older version of the A21 and the AVA amps, go with AVA.  They are much better sounding and have a fabulous rich and full midrange.

Keep in mind the preamp and DAC or phono play a role.  I would probably forget about an A23+ as it is not even in the same league as the other amps.

[mkH]

Thank you for all the replies thus far, I am glad to hear about the AVA amps having heftier bass than my potential plan B - Parasound options. I am using a tube DAC - Musical Paradise and Bottlehead Moreplay Preamp. To me the Moreplay is warm, clear and detailed but the bass presence is definitely down a couple notches. I am hoping to flesh out the bass heft more and would like a full sound without having to resort to my solid state preamp. Unfortunately the Bottlehead does not have XLR output but I was thinking of using RCA to XLR adapters if it is okay to use with the DVAs.
 

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Thank you for all the replies thus far, I am glad to hear about the AVA amps having heftier bass than my potential plan B - Parasound options. I am using a tube DAC - Musical Paradise and Bottlehead Moreplay Preamp. To me the Moreplay is warm, clear and detailed but the bass presence is definitely down a couple notches. I am hoping to flesh out the bass heft more and would like a full sound without having to resort to my solid state preamp. Unfortunately the Bottlehead does not have XLR output but I was thinking of using RCA to XLR adapters if it is okay to use with the DVAs.
 

Not really a good idea to use adapters with the 225's but Frank does sell a converter to use with the 225.  The 225's are a bridged amp.

Have you tube rolled in your DAC or Preamp for more bass?

[mkH]

Yes rolled quite a few tubes and think I have the best options for smooth midrange with good bass. I am hoping a better amp will fill in the blanks but maybe that is not the bottle neck? With the Pass being the king of thunder, would you rate the AVA 400 as being pretty close. I don't mind the bass being slow as my preamp seems to have a faster presentation overall.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Yes rolled quite a few tubes and think I have the best options for smooth midrange with good bass. I am hoping a better amp will fill in the blanks but maybe that is not the bottle neck? With the Pass being the king of thunder, would you rate the AVA 400 as being pretty close. I don't mind the bass being slow as my preamp seems to have a faster presentation overall.

I think that the Pass may have more thunder but I don't remember exactly.

Here is my review of the SET 400 compared to my Pass-

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=158752.0

Have you considered a new preamp?

Also, what caps do you have in the DAC?  The Obbligato Gold caps are soft in bass but have some bloom to them.  I don't have that DAC but I built a Pass DIY preamp and used the O.Gold caps then swapped them for some Clarity caps and there was a huge improvement in bass.

[WGH]

I am hoping a better amp will fill in the blanks but maybe that is not the bottle neck?

I haven't heard the Bottlehead Moreplay Preamp but based on the Bottlehead Seduction phono preamp I had for a while I would guess your preamp is the bottleneck.

If I were you I would get the AVA Fet Valve CFR preamp and the SET 400. The AVA preamp has 4 tubes to roll, really tight deep, deep bass plus all the other premium sound stuff the more expensive amps can do. The synergy between the CFR preamp and SET 400 amp is to die for. Give Frank a call to talk about XLR adapters, he may change your mind. Almost every time I have called AVA Frank is the person answering the phone. The AVA DVA R2X will require two sets of interconnects. Since I am switching over to all Hapa interconnects that could become a major expense. Hint: Don't cheap out on interconnects with AVA electronics.

[dB Cooper]

I haven't heard the Bottlehead Moreplay Preamp but based on the Bottlehead Seduction phono preamp I had for a while I would guess your preamp is the bottleneck.

So you're saying the Bottlehead is the bottleneck? 

[JLM]

Welcome!

What loudspeakers/subwoofers are you using?  What is the room like (dimensions, finishes, setup)?  In my experience loudspeakers are the biggest factor to system performance with the room being #2.  What kind(s) of music do you enjoy?  How loud do you listen (do you own a sound pressure level meter)?  These are other factors to consider well before swapping electronics.  And finally what is your budget for the overall system?

Bottlehead comes from low power amps with high efficiency loudspeakers which means weak bass to start with (as bass takes lots of power).  I tried to warm up to that crowd for years but could never find matching loudspeakers I liked.  Finally realized the crowd were allergic to bass and many of them got weird looks of confusion on their faces when they heard it.  I instead came from transmission line bass (deep, musical, fast) so I left them behind.

The current favorite power amps are class D and in particular Purifi (a next generation version of class D).  They are all highly efficient, small, light, and perform very well.  Frankly they make the rest seem like dinosaurs.  One of affordable Purifi options is VTV.  Another consideration is active monitors (with one channel of amplification per driver built into the cabinet - a superior approach to you trying to match amps to passive loudspeakers).  Most actives nowadays come with digital (even wireless) inputs and their own DAC's.  Buchardt A500 is one of more interesting designs.  Just add a source and you're done.

[WGH]

So you're saying the Bottlehead is the bottleneck? 

Yes, nice wordplay    The Moreplay could be a bottleneck but that would be for the OP to decide. I do know that the Fet Valve CFR preamp does not limit low bass. The speakers, room and seating location also affects the perceived bass. When I sit behind the sofa there is a huge bass node that makes the music all warm and fuzzy.

[avahifi]

Thanks for the nice comments regarding our SET 400 amplifier.  However it is getting an all new chassis which allows some circuit improvements too.  We are sold out of the current version and it will be about two months before the new SET 500 is ready to ship. There will be a new M750 mono version too. The M225 mono amps remain in production.

Frank

[mkH]

I think that the Pass may have more thunder but I don't remember exactly.

Here is my review of the SET 400 compared to my Pass-

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=158752.0

Have you considered a new preamp?

Also, what caps do you have in the DAC?  The Obbligato Gold caps are soft in bass but have some bloom to them.  I don't have that DAC but I built a Pass DIY preamp and used the O.Gold caps then swapped them for some Clarity caps and there was a huge improvement in bass.

Excellent review,sounds like they may have been more similar than different in the bass department. I enjoy music more when there is more palpable presence in addition to the listening. Per your advice I rolled some tubes that did not work with my last pre amp, I never thought to try them with the Bottlehead. Much better fit here and yes more bass, everything else too though. I am running the stock Obligattos and yes the bloom is there, maybe I'll be brave enough to tinker more to change caps at some point.
Thanks for the help!

[mkH]

Wow, 5 is my lucky number, can't wait to see what the new 500 looks like  . I haven't had the good fortune to hear the SET 400, but I hope the 500 elevates the warmth, liquid mids and bass presence everyone talks about. It may be right up my alley, I guess I'll have to wait for the reviews!!!

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Glad to hear that the tube rolling worked out for you.

I can almost guaranty that you will get more bass by replacing the obbligato golds with a better cap.  It was a night and day difference between the clarity caps and the obbligato golds in the preamp that I built.   The caps in the MP DAC are supposed to be easy to replace being held in by thumb screws if I remember correctly.

Here is a review of capacitors-

https://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

Maybe Frank will contact me to review the SET 500.

[ArthurDent]

Greetings & Welcome to AC mkH   

[avahifi]

Hi Larry,

I do have a couple of SET 500/M750 dual purpose prototypes up and running here. They have production audio circuits, heatsinks, and basic layouts in very crude prototype chassis.

You are welcome to come for a visit and take them home for a weekend or a bit longer.  Production metal is very close to being ready to order.  Just now making a few design tweaks to the metal parts.  It’s here to look at too.  Size is 17” wide, 5.5” tall, and about 12” deep.

Same stunning sound as the M225 amps but over three times as powerful (and much heavier).

Frank