Modwright Choices? Which one will sound best?

merc · « **on:** 31 Mar 2005, 05:09 am »

I recently bought a Denon 3910 and an Onkyo SP1000. I am currently comparing the two Universal Players for audio playback, and so far, the SP1000 seems to be ever so slightly more detailed and resolving than is the Denon. However, the SP1000 also shows an older, or badly produced CD's warts moreso than does the Denon. I have some older rock CDs which when played via the Onkyo have me wishing I had some tubes between it and me due to the digital edge.

That said, it is my birthday and I can do one of two things...
1. Either have Dan do the full tube mod on the 3910
OR
2. Buy the new SWL 9SE preamp(with Tung Sols) and keep the Onkyo SP1000.

My pre/pro is the Krell HTS 7.1 and my amp is the ATI 3007.

Which option do you think would sound better, and why?

Thanks for your help and opinions!

jcoat007 · « **Reply #1 on:** 31 Mar 2005, 04:01 pm »

This is a very good question. I have the SWL 9.0 and it is an incredible preamp. I have not heard the Krell, but I don't think it would be the weakest link in your chain.

I personally would go down the route of modding the Denon. The Modified Denon has been reviewed and ackowledged by many to be a statement digital front end. Once you have that in place then work towards upgrading the pre-amp if you even find that necessary.

I had a good CD player and a well respected preamp. I significantly upgraded my digital front end and I was floored at the improvement in my system. I then changed my preamp to the SWL and again took a huge leap foward. If I had done it the other way around, I'm afraid that the SWL would have highlighted my weak front end whereas now it showcases it more.

Just my 2 cents. YMMV

ted_b · « **Reply #2 on:** 31 Mar 2005, 05:01 pm »

Overall, I agree with jcoat007. As a rule, if all else is equal or close, improvements should start at the source. I had my source fixed (Modwright 999ES Platinum) before I went the SWL9.0SE route, and found that, although both were huge improvements, the source was the right place to start. My dedicated analog pre at the time was no slouch; that being said, the new SWL is much much better (read my reviews, and others). However, if your Krell HTS is anything like my Lexicon pre/pro, the analog 2 channel section is below average (which is why I didn't use the Lex). I would be surprised if the HTS's analog section is as unmusical as the Lex. However, if that is the case, and I'm purely speculating here, then start with the pre. It will make all your 2 channel sources sound better, especially if you tube roll and find some warmer options in the meantime.

Edit: Just quickly scanned 2 reviews of the HTS and they both said the analog stages are some it its best features; so I believe it's a no-brainer to go the Denon mod route first. The SWL will be a nice next step.

Ted

dnd · « **Reply #3 on:** 1 Apr 2005, 02:05 am »

I too have a Krell HTS 7.1, and I like it a lot. I think - emphasis on “think” - many people think poorly of this Krell because they mistake it for the earlier HTS versions, simply calling it a Krell HTS in not enough.

Now that I have said that...Dan should have received my 3910 today for modding. I have owned previously the Integra DPS 10.5 which is essentially the SP-1000. I got rid of it for several reasons and am now using an Esoteric DV-50. I'll be happy to post my thoughts when I get the 3910 back, but that won't be for several weeks yet.

As far as the pre/pro, I will have a McIntosh MX-119 next week to demo. This pre/pro has their C45 pre-amp built-it ($3600 stand-alone unit). This piece had been recommended to me by several people, so I am giving it a whirl.

Additionally, I have recently learned that Dan's pre-amp has an HT pass-through, but I don't know how it works. Just more thing to consider.

BTW, the DV-50 is WAY better than the SP1000 and the 3910 (stock forms of course). I had also demoed the Meridian G98, the Krell Showcase DVD, and owned a Lexicon RT-10. These three players also were also much better in my system than the 1000 & 3910.

I think we are walking the same path.

ted_b · « **Reply #4 on:** 1 Apr 2005, 02:13 am »

The HT bypass is a pass-thru. The volume and gain sections (tubes, etc.) are bypassed. Connect your front l&r from your pre/pro to the HT inputs. That way, when it is switched in from the front panel, the SWL is out of the picture, and the pre/pro's volume is active. It's as though you connected the front l&r directly to the amps.

dnd · « **Reply #5 on:** 1 Apr 2005, 02:19 am »

That is what I thought, but I was thrown off when reading the specs somewhere and it said "HT bypass" next to "RCA outputs." Maybe I just read it wrong.

merc · « **Reply #6 on:** 1 Apr 2005, 02:38 pm »

Thank you, everyone, for all the help, advice and input!!!

As an addition to the info on the SWL 9SE, I believe that Dan previously posted that he was going to change(already changed?), the bypass so that it worked when the SWL was turned OFF too. That way, the bypass would simply act as a slightly longer IC.

The bypass inputs ARE located right next to the other inputs for the SWL.

I wonder how much better the Denon 5910 is for audio versus the Onkyo and Denon 3910? I wonder how the unmodded 5910 would compare to Dan's modded 3910? I wonder if Dan is even modding the 5910, or not?

Since this unit will be my LAST standard DVD/Universal Player, I want to make sure it is the best one I can afford. I considered units like the Esoteric, but it is simply out of my price range.

Thanks again for all your help and opinions!

dnd · « **Reply #7 on:** 1 Apr 2005, 02:53 pm »

So merc,

Are you getting a SWL 9SE?

Dave

merc · « **Reply #8 on:** 1 Apr 2005, 03:00 pm »

Quote

Are you getting a SWL 9SE?

Eventually, yes. As to whether I get it first, or second, I think I'll probably leave that decision up to Dan.

Tonally, I wonder how much different the SWL 9SE will sound compared to the analog section of my HTS7.1? I'd guess that the SWL will be as transparent as the Krell but somehow, more musical(whatever that means?)?

dnd · « **Reply #9 on:** 1 Apr 2005, 03:13 pm »

merc, I sent you a PM.

modwright · « **Reply #10 on:** 3 Apr 2005, 09:26 pm »

I believe that you need to start of with the right source signal first...it can only get degraded from there. Alternatively, you can have the best downstream electronics, but if your source is not up to the tast, you won't get any better than that.

We HAVE finally FINISHED the Denon 3910 Universal Truth mods I am pleased to say and they ARE the best that we have done to date!!!

The mod price is $2500; $3995 for fully modified unit.

It does feature an outboard supply, clock upgrade, and a more sophisticated tube stage (than previous tube mods) that borrows from the SWL 9.0SE design.

More details will be posted separately RE the Denon mods.

Thanks,

Dan

Kevin P · « **Reply #11 on:** 3 Apr 2005, 09:40 pm »

Quote from: modwright

We HAVE finally FINISHED the Denon 3910 Universal Truth mods I am pleased to say and they ARE the best that we have done to date!!!

I think it must be because of that clock your using Dan.

jackman · « **Reply #12 on:** 3 Apr 2005, 09:43 pm »

Dan installed the LC03 clock in my CDP and I can attest for the improvement. I hope to own one of the modded Denon's soon.

J

merc · « **Reply #13 on:** 4 Apr 2005, 08:17 pm »

Thank you all so very, very much with your advice, opinions and experiences! I appreciated them all very much!!!

That said.... after talking with Dan this afternoon, I am sending him my Denon 3910 for modding instead of ordering an SWL 9.0SE.

I can't wait to get this baby back!!!!!

Thanks again for all your help!

alotaklipsch · « **Reply #14 on:** 4 Apr 2005, 11:01 pm »

Dan, does this mean my PATIENCE of over a year is gonna pay off with sonic bliss?

Lachaim, my friend, I hope to get it this week, I just bought the Cary 211 Anniversary amps, hopefully I will be in sonic heaven. Please call me and tell me my 3910 has been shipped.

Best

Steve Smilin

modwright · « **Reply #15 on:** 4 Apr 2005, 11:59 pm »

Come on man....a year?

....now that's exaggerating...

It has taken me longer than expected to get the unit to you, but yours is also the first. I actually shipped it today, via UPS Blue and it will be in your hands on Wed.

The Denon IS our best work to date and I am very happy with the result. I believe you will be quite pleased. Now you just need to sell your other preamp and get our SWL 9.0SE.

Thanks,

Dan

merc · « **Reply #16 on:** 4 Apr 2005, 11:59 pm »

Quote

Dan, does this mean my PATIENCE of over a year is gonna pay off with sonic bliss? Lachaim, my friend, I hope to get it this week, I just bought the Cary 211 Anniversary amps, hopefully I will be in sonic heaven. Please call me and tell me my 3910 has been shipped.

Holy Crap... is there a one year wait time for Modwrights mods of units sent to them???? Jeez... if Steve is right... I won't be getting my 3910 back again until Denon releases two more models after the 3910????

Can Steve possibly be telling the truth?

Please, please, please... will anyone who got their modded unit in under a year please post to tell us otherwise??? Or, NOT?

merc · « **Reply #17 on:** 5 Apr 2005, 12:20 am »

BTW... just kidding, by far, on the Modwright timeframe and I am also thinking that Steve's wait was far less than a year since I don't think the Denon 3910 was available for modding was until late last year???

Regardless, I waited a long time for my first Modwright modded unit and oh my god... I might be willing to wait for awhile this time too. (did I just say that out loud???)

dnd · « **Reply #18 on:** 5 Apr 2005, 01:32 am »

Merc, you have a pm

alotaklipsch · « **Reply #19 on:** 5 Apr 2005, 03:49 am »

It was not a year for the 3910, I bought the first one from the CES in January, but it has been a year trying to get a modwright product for myself. heh heh heh.....

I am sure the wait is worth it....I will know
wednesday

duh dduh duh duhhh

I am gonna send my APL 3910 back dor upgrades, set up my new Cary 211 anniversaries, and friggin smile....

yaknow

Thanks Dan

ya made my day, still wish ya called me