[nadirmg]

Hi everyone -

I've been watching Danny's videos for about a year and think I'm very close to getting started in being an audiophile. I am a complete newbie. Currently I'm listening on two Apple Homepods....

I have two phases in mind - start out with a pair of NX Studios for my first DIY speakers and then move up to NX Oticas with two double servo subs.

So my question: What the main electronic components I'll need to be able to enjoy my NX Studios that will also be able to handle/power the NX Oticas and dual servo subs??

This is a completely new world to me and I know I'm going to want something beyond Onkyo or Denon.

For those of you have have either/ or both NX Studios/NX Oticas, would you share what else your'e running on your rig? Mainly I'm looking for company and component name/models to research so I can begin figuring out what I need to buy and, based on budget, when I'll buy them.

Thanks in advance! Looking forward to digging in and learning from your experience and passion. I can't wait!

[NoahH]

Oooh - fun one!

Cost, of course, drives everything.

Schiit is a favorite for less expensive gear, both amps, preamps and DACs.
Wilsenton is popular for inexpensive tube amps.
Topping is popular for inexpensive DACs.

It starts getting wide after that as you open up the price range.
PS Audio is popular here with both midrange gear and expensive gear, all component types
I just bought a McIntosh MC275 for my NX-Tremes. I am using MiniDSP SHDs as the DAC and Pre for now
I have some Ayre gear that I absolutely love on another system
The NAD master series is getting a lot of love for midrange gear of all types
My biggest suggestion is to go used. Look at The Music Room and Audiogon to see used listings

[Tyson]

For the NX-Studio I'd recommend a great SS amp like the Odyssey Stratos (vendor is here on AC and a great guy).  For a DAC, I recently demo'd the Musical Paradise tube DAC and was blown away by how good it was for the $$. 

[mkrawcz]

For amps, if you don’t have $6k-$15k to spend on PS Audio M1200s or BHKs, I recommend either the upcoming GR-Research GK10 battery powered chip amp, or a diy build from Neurochrome. Neurochrome will be selling a very high quality universal chassis soon that will make it very easy to build the amp. Neurochrome’s build documentation is perfect for a beginner and the amps compete with $15k and up SS amps in sound quality. I currently have PS Audio BHK monos, a GK-10 prototype, and a couple Neurochrome amps. All of them are about the best you will get at any price.

[corndog71]

Fortunately all of Danny’s speakers are easy to drive.  If you can demo gear before buying or if they have a reasonable return policy explore those options.  How do you feel about tube gear?  That’s another branch that requires some research and exploration.  How much space do you have for gear?  Don’t forget room treatment. 
Can you build electronic kits?  That’s another way to get great sound for less than retail prices.

Really the best advice I have is to keep reading.  Research brands that have the qualities you find important.  If something looks like a good choice then buy it and live with it.  Most of us have gone through some trial and error to find great gear.  Sometimes you find great gear that’s popular and sometimes you want to check out something that just looks cool.  Consider carefully how many sources you want and all connection options.  Don’t worry about fancy cables and other small tweaks until after you pick your main gear and get your room optimized.  Cost is always a consideration but remember you don’t have to spend a ton to get great sound.  And have fun with it!  If it’s not fun then you’re focusing on the wrong things.  Music is the goal.

[Chewbacca]

This is a fun one!

I've recently finished a pair of NX-Oticas, and wow. You're on the right track... I wish I would have started with a GR kit right of the bat. Absolutely world class!!

I have basically what Tyson suggested, but monoblocks for the amps (one for each speaker - sorry, I'm going to assume you know nothing. Don't take that the wrong way if you already know this stuff ) and have recently acquired the MP-D2 MK3 DAC he speaks of... and it is fantastic. VERY close sound to vinyl. The bass is a bit better (than my vinyl rig) the mids I'd say are close to equal, and the highs are just ALMOST there. In the end, it's almost a wash honestly. The new DACs are just fantastic... You will have to spend I'd say close to $3-5k on a vinyl rig with a decent phono preamp that will get you close to that DAC that's under 2k... Which then all you need to do is pay $15 a month or so on Qobuz, and don't need to spent $20-$30 on each album. Or if you're lucky, finding a gem at a used record store for $4-$7. I digress...

If you're going to go with the MP-D2, and this is going to be your only source, you wouldn't need a preamp - because this has a built in volume control. BUT, if you ever wanted to run Vinyl, or another source (source being the original signal creation, the DAC, the stylus/record player)

If you wanted to get more advanced and upgrade further, you would want to get a pre-amplifier. This is what has multiple inputs for sources, and usually dual outputs, this way you can easily hook up your subs, plug in multiple sources, add some tube glory if you go with a tube pre-amp (which you should do! ) One that's still in production is the Odyssey Candela, and this will just jive like none other with the Odyssey amp (if you go that route). Otherwise... If you can find one, a Dodd preamp is what I would suggest. But unfortunately Gary Dodd is no longer with us, so his equipment is just being held on by everyone that has it... he made quite a few units, and you never see them for sale... that means something. But, you may find one eventually refreshing HiFi Shark every day... Took me about 2 years lol.

What I would suggest, is the MP-D2 for the DAC (due to the volume control... and it's amazing sounding...) get an amplifier (can't go wrong with Odyssey), then build your NX-Studios without subs. When you decide it's time for subs, and or Oticas, then I would start looking into a preamp with dual outputs - this will add resolution, clarity, bla bla all that good stuff, AND let you easily hook up your subs with the dual outputs. Yes there are other ways to do this, but IMO this is ideal.

REGARDLESS... building GR speakers, you're going to be happy!

All of this 100% relies on budget though! - and I didn't even get into integrated amplifiers lol. These have both the preamp and amplifier stages in one unit. You'll loose some flexibility, and probably endup paying more initially, than the DAC into amp combo.

[BGA]

I've had my NX-Otica's running for about a month now, probably 150 hours on them and I absolutely love them, here is my front end.

Bluesound Node 2i --> MHDT Pagoda --> Shit Freya+ --> either Neochrome Modulus-85 or Elekit 8800 (KT77) --> NX-Oticas/Dual H-Frames

I haven't actually used the Pagoda with the NX-Otica's yet I'm getting back from warranty work tomorrow so that should be fun to add it back.

I find the Neochrome is a wonderful clean and natural sounding amp especially for the price, more than enough power and sounds wonderful. I am a bit of a sucker for tubes and the Elekit sounds wonderful on the Oticas, and its running about 6 watts. Everything is noticeable with Oticas, every change you make you will notice the difference in gear or placement and especially room treatments. It's definitely a journey of tweaking and playing around but the end results are stunning, you won't be disappointed.

[nadirmg]

Everyone, thank you so much for the replies.

I don’t know anything at all about this world. I’m realizing that I need an amp to drive my speakers, and in my case, I probably want two amps, one per speaker. And then a preamp is different from an amp 

This is my first system, so I’m not trying to spend $100k when most of the subtleties will be lost on my untrained ears. But I definitely want to get components that can grow with me (from the NX Studios up to subs and NX Oticas)

And while I don’t have an ear for subtleties yet, I know I definitely don’t want something that’s very bright and that will be exhausting to listen to.

I don’t know anything about tubes though. And someone mentioned that would require some learning. What’s on the other side of the tubes debate? Tubes vs ___?

Here’s what I will be listening to for the most part:
Classic rock
Ambient/new age music
Trance music from the late 2000 to early 2010s
Jazz

Not really into classical, opera, country or top 40 music. Definitely no rap.

Stoked that I have 3 days to research.

If crypto keeps going up, I plan to get myself a nice system.

I have two rooms I could use:
- a spare bedroom  11’x13’ (might be too small for NX Oticas and subs)
- living room 25’x28’ (but will be harder to sound treat because it’s open open living room that connects to my kitchen with doorways into other rooms - this might be too big and swallow up the NX Studios but would be great for subs and Oticas)

Thanks again - I’ll come back with more questions 🧐

[Tyson]

My advice is alway to get the best speakers you can, then build the rest of the system around them.  Because synergy (and personal taste) come into the equation very quickly.   Think of the speakers as the 'lens' that lets you see into the recording, and then the rest of the gear is the way you 'fine tune' that lens to your personal preferences. 

Depending on budget, here's the amps/preamps I would recommend (in order of cost and performance):

Schiit Audio
Odyssey Audio
Pass Labs

For your DAC, I'd recommend (again, in order of cost/performance)

Musical Paradise MP-D2 mk3
iFi iDSD Pro
Holo May

For the amp/preamp, all the companies I listed above make both preamps and amps.  I find that buying amps/preamps from the same company will often get you a nice bump in performance because the gear was literally made to work together. 

[corndog71]

Being a broke audiophile I tend to recommend things on the cheaper side. 

An integrated amplifier is a great way to get better than average sound with just a few compromises.  I’ve had a Bryston B60 for over 20 years because it gave me the basics.  High quality sound and preamp outputs so if I wanted to use separate amps I could.  Bryston is kind of expensive these days but if you can find a used one, then that’s not a bad way to go.

Other options to consider:

https://www.schiit.com/products/ragnarok-1

https://outlawaudio.com/shop/stereo-receivers/56-rr2160mkii-stereo-receiver.html

https://www.rega.co.uk/products/elex-r

An integrated amplifier combines the preamp and amplifier sections in one box.  One of the reasons to go for separate preamp and amplifiers is they each have their own power supply.  This gives a cleaner and more detailed sound.

If you want to try separates without committing a ton of money then consider a Schiit Saga or Freya preamp with an Aegir (for the smaller room) or Vidar (for the larger room).

For a good digital to analog converter I would recommend any of Schiit’s multibit dacs.  Bifrost, Gungnir, or Yggdrasil.  I just find their multibit performance to be very organic and musical.

[nadirmg]

Thanks again everyone!
I'm digging in deep today and nerding out.

For now, and since electronics seem to have a high resale value, I'm ok with having a starter system that I will likely upgrade over time. I think I'll definitely start with the NX Studios. Easier system to put together and MUCH simpler.

For my needs at this point, I will only be listening on a digital source (DAC). Maybe someday in the future I will add vinyls and CDs which will mean I would need to add a preamp, but for now, only a DAC means I do not need to worry about a preamp right now, right?

So this is how I'm mapping it out:


This question will expose me for the newb I am:
If I want to eventually have a set of NX Oticas and dual servo subs for each speaker cabinet like New Record Day has in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldrL3EdnLvA&t=618s, then I need a total of 4 channels but only two channels per Amp, right? Two channels per amp, 1 channel for the speaker cabinet and 1 channel for the sub, right? Or am I way off?

Obviously, knowing how many channels I need will inform what gear I buy and I want to make sure I don't screw up on buying my first pieces of gear.

Thank you!

[NoahH]

The subs have their own amplifiers so it does not change anything for your other amps. Basically, if your DAC has volume control, you can run a copy of the signal that goes to the amp out to the subs and you are done. There is one other config that can work but I will leave it out to keep it simple.

Note that if you are looking to build up a system, buying a single 2 channel amp and driving both speakers from that is a good start. If that amp can be 'bridged', that means you can then buy another amp of the same make later and use them as monoblock for each channel separately.

You really don't have to do that though. There are a lot of good 2 channel amplifiers.

[corndog71]

If the DAC you choose has a volume control then you can probably get away without a preamp for a simple 2 channel system. 

But if you want to add subs you will likely need one.  Sure, technically you could split the output of the dac 4 ways (yes, 2 per channel).  But most dacs have a fixed output voltage and are not really designed for driving multiple amplifiers.

It may seem redundant but a preamp does a lot more than just provide source selection and volume control.  It adds an amplification (or gain) stage between the source and amplifier.   It can more easily drive multiple amplifiers with long cable runs if necessary.  Ideally you want a preamp with 2 pairs of outputs.  Or one with a regular output and another output for the subs. 

It’s about controlling the signal and maintaining signal integrity. 

[Tyson]

If you are going with a simple system at first, then check out the Schiit Lyr, it has a great DAC, preamp, and headphone amp all in one unit.  You only have to add a separate amplifier to drive the NX-Studios:

https://www.schiit.com/products/lyr-1

[mlundy57]

Something else to keep in mind is synergy between the components. Sometimes this can be tricky when mixing and matching components from differrent companies. If you go the mix and mach route, be sure to either buy used or from companies with return policies that allow you enough time to evaluate the piece with the rest of your gear.

Another approach is to buy all the components from the same manufacturer. That way you know the components were designed to work well with each other. Also, some manufacturers have components at different price levels. Schiit Audio and PS Audio are two that come to mind. For example, PS Audio has their Sprout 100 which is an intigrated DAC, phono preamp, streamer, preamp, headphone amp, and stereo amp in one component for $700. Their next level is the Stellar series. The Stellar series has both integrated and separate options. The integrated amp in the Stellar series is the Strata which has the same functions as the Sprout minus a phono preamp, for $3,300. Going with seperates in the Stellar series range from $3,550 with the S300 stereo amp; $5,200 with the M700 monoblocks; to $9,500 with the M1200 monoblocks. The Stellar Phono preamp is $2,500. Their top of the line series is called PerfectWave and includes the BHK Signature preamp and poweramps, both stereo and monoblocks; the DirectStream DAC, PST SACD/CD transport. Currently the PerfectWave series does not have a phono preamp. A PerfectWave series setup with monoblocks and a Stellar Phono preamp would set you back $39,000. The components in the Stellar and PerfectWave series play very well together. 

Unlike other companies, PS Audio allows you to trade in equipment for it's full original retail value towards the price of their equipment and will credit up to 30% of the price of the PS Audio gear you are purchasing. If the original price of the item you are trading in exceeds 30% of the cost of the piece you are buying, the balance is kept on account and can be applied to the cost of future gear. The way the trade in program works is you pay for the component minus whatever the trade in value of your gear is, they send you the new component, and you try it out in your system for 30 days. If you like the new component, you send in your trade in. If you don't like it, you send it back and they refund your money.

There is also the used market. I've bought most of my gear, regardless of brand, on the used market. I bought my first PS Audio gear, a Stellar GainCell DAC and S300 stereo amp, used with factory warranty still available. Currently, my system consists of the PerfectWave series of components except for the power amps which are Stellar M1200s. All of my PS Audio gear has either been bought used off of US Audio Mart or Audiogon or new through their trade in program.

[Chewbacca]

As some before has said, the only way to do your setup you have sketched is to get a DAC with a volume control. The one that's on the top of my list (and Tyson's) the MP-D2 has a built in one... and it sounds awesome! - I don't have much experience with the other new DACs, but I can say... this one is great!

As far as preamp and amplifier vs integrated, I would go the preamp and amplifier/s. You can certainly do a stereo amp with the preamp (stereo=amp that drives both channels, usually one power supply for both channels. Mono/monoblocks= one amp per speaker) This does allow that extra flexibility for whatever you want to do down the line, in addition to (again) a separate power supply for that section.

I've sketched up a couple more configurations for you that your system could evolve into:





Please note, that the RCA can be swapped for balanced cables... I'm not going to get into that right now, but there's a TON of info out there between RCA and Balanced cables. I run RCA, more universal, and every piece of equipment will have RCA's (98% of the time). Also looking at it, I don't think you'd run a USB from a CD transport. BUT, those basically have already gone to the wayside. If you're already running a PC, I would rip all your CDs with a program like dBpoweramp, to uncompressed FLAC files. Then use a program like Foobar2000 (or Roon if you want to spend the money, foobar is free) to play all the CDs. There's no loss in quality.. and it's MUCH more convenient than changing each CD... that's for the birds!... or vinyl

Besides the Odyssey amps, and you're into DIY (assuming you are...) I'd seriously consider that Neurochrome amp... I've been secretly looking into them myself here and there But I'd compare it side by side with the Odysseys before I ever pulled a trigger.

You're in for a fun/frustrating/rewarding/awesome hobby!

[mlundy57]

Beware of analysis paralysis. There are so many options that will work with the NX Studios and NX-Oticas and so much information you could spend the rest of your life trying to decide. Don't let yourself get overwhelmed trying to build a perfect system. There is no such thing. Everything in electronics is a compromise. Each designer picks the compromises they are willing to make for the sound they are after. So do your research then pick something and go with it. Have fun with it.

[nadirmg]

All of this info is invaluable! Looks like I'm putting the breaks on the Super System (for now). GR Research can't get servo sub kits because of supply line issues.

So I just ordered my NX Studio kits from Danny and am waiting for Jay to get back to me on the flatpacks. I am seriously pumped.


One thing I'm noticing about DACs... remote controls are not standard. Whyyyyyyy??? Is that just part of Hi-Fi if I want a remote is there usually a component that always has one?

I'm thinking I will get to monoblock amps, that way when it's time to upgrade to NX/Oticas, I'll have the drive power to do it.

That just leaves picking the DAC as well as the streaming service. I've got a Mac PowerBook from 2014 that I just upgraded from and I'm considering making that my PC to send data to the DAC. But I guess that's a whole 'nother ball of yarn to untangle.

[mkrawcz]

On the DAC front, the Holo Audio Spring DAC has a class A preamp option for $500 extra. It’s actually going to be my next purchase as well.

[mlundy57]

While a lot of DACs don’t have remotes, most preamps do. If the DAC you want doesn’t have a remote, you will need to connect it to a preamp that does have a remote