[WerTicus]

Ugly you say



VAF and Krix are mid fi speakers - sonique, duntech I have never heard of.

This is best of the best type stuff.


They use the best tweeter (raven) and the best mid range (accuton) and the best woofer (cabasse) known to exist - in a very well built cabinet, using very good x over components (axon) completely designed by Pat (winner of CES2001 most real sound of the show or some such award)

They arnt available in a kit - 8k retail.
Perhaps a PM with more specific questions is in order but this is a nuforce thread so so in order to keep it on topic...

the nuforce reference 8 amp is the perfect amp to drive ones reference ones!

[jules]

Agisthos,

have a look at the Aussie Pie circle for more on the W.A.R. range. There are a couple of threads on speakers.

I think WAR have some very fine stuff though I'm not convinced that putting together one of the most expensive tweeters with one of the most expensive mids and one of the most expensive woofers necessarily equates to the ultimate system.

Note: I have NOT heard the ref 1.

jules

[Agisthos]

Yes they do look nice. Pity they dont mention anything about those on their website

I was talking about these www.warco.com.au/waraudio/kits/kits.html

You would not call Vaf's stuff midfi if you have heard their signature range

[Hantra]

I'm not convinced that putting together one of the most expensive tweeters with one of the most expensive mids and one of the most expensive woofers necessarily equates to the ultimate system.

Thank god someone else finally said it.  I can't tell you how strongly I agree with this statement.

 

[nature boy]

I have a pair of the Nuforce Reference 8 monoblock amps coming for an audition from Mike at Tweakgeeks, along with some CT reference mkII interconnects.  I will be doing an A-B comparison with my Don Nance modified DNA LA-100 amp w/ VH Audio OIMP V-Caps.

Should be interesting.  Hopefully Gordy can come up for a listen too.

NB

[Rocket]

Hi Agisthos,

I don't want to go over the top as i'm trying to reform myself.  Firstly, i really am a firm believer that you really need to hear speakers in your own system and make your own assessments.

I have listened to the vaf dcx speaker and it didn't sound as good as my old war audio speakers which used a focal 120tdx tweeter and 2 x 7 inch access (focal) mid/range drivers in an mtm configuration.  I have also heard krix speakers and thought they sounded fine.  How much do the vaf signatures sell for in adelaide?  If you like them you should consider them as you should be able to hear them for yourself.

I also agree with hantra that using top line components won't guarantee a great sounding speaker.  Pat is a first class speaker designer.

I'm surprised how long this thread has gone.  I'm usually lucky if i get one post.  I initially started the thread as i thought the nuforce amplifier sounded better than bel canto monoblocks and were good value.

Regards

Rod

[cryotweaks]

I have a pair of the Nuforce Reference 8 monoblock amps coming for an audition from Mike at Tweakgeeks, along with some CT reference mkII interconnects.  I will be doing an A-B comparison with my Don Nance modified DNA LA-100 amp w/ VH Audio OIMP V-Caps.

Should be interesting.  Hopefully Gordy can come up for a listen too.

NB

BTW, Its TweekGeek

Regarding the performance of the amps.  My initial impression hasn't changed much since I first placed them in my system.  There is significant speed, not just rise time, but  decay time (when appropriate) is very fast as well. I am certain this is due to the power supply being able to "let go" of the signal unlike a transformer based power supply.  For instance, a piano player strikes the key(s) hard.  On most systems you get the dynamic transient of the key strike, but with these amps you also hear the fingers coming off the keys quickly as well.  It just gets you one more step closer to realism.

Violins playing complex pieces full of harmonics are rendered more fully.  You hear more harmonics leading to a more natural sound.  

The soudstage width and depth are rendered very well.  No complaints there.  

There is an overall non-fatiguing sound to these at any volume level. There is no sacrifice in detail to achieve this non-fatiguing sound.  These things will play louder than any 100 watt amp I have ever heard before.  They played as loud, and sounded way better than my Parasound Halo A 51, a 250 wpc 90 pound beast.  In comparison with the Parasound, the Nuforce had a smoother midrange and treble that was without glare or zippiness.  The Parasound had incredible impact and force, but was downright zippy in the treble.

My EM meter reads very low on the NuForce amps.  This is probably due to the fact that their isn't a massive transformer under the hood.  In my opinion, this too plays a large role in their exceptional sound.  

In comparison with my Sony ES Direct Digital Stream setup (9000ES SACD player with firewire out to 9000ES Digitally amplified receiver). The Sony setup had bested the Parasound by a wide margin as far as detail, soundstage, smotthness and accuracy. The 100 watt NuForce amps had more guts, detail, better harmonic information, and less harshness (especially at higher volumes) than the 200 watt Sony Direct Digital system.

The most important factor to me was, I could listen to my "old stuff" again without running out of the room, or turning the volume down.  It was just a feeling of satisfaction I had in my gut.  Knowing that it just sounded right.  I was able to just kick back, enjoy whatever was playing without grinding my teeth, over analyzing things, or reaching for the volume knob to turn it down.  It was the kind of enjoyment I had when I was first listening to music, when I wasn't so damn obsessed with the equipment.  These amps brought back those long lost feelings.  That to me is priceless.

I hope everyone here can find this type of satisfaction in listening to their music.  That's what its all about.  At least I hope...

Cheers

[sm4r2d2]

What about power line conditioning? Same as usual or ___?

   Thanks   ---Richard DC---

[WerTicus]

tweek geek sure knows how to put it into words.

This amp just sounds RIGHT

also i said best tweeter, best mid, and best woofer AND a great designer ....

[cryotweaks]

What I used for Power conditioning:

I ended up using a 4 outlet hospital grade outlet box that I incorported Bybees into (2 paralelled on the hot, 2 paralleled on the neutral, one on the ground).  you can get the outlet and the box at McMaster.com.

It also has a detachable power cord.  For which I used the ZCable Blue Lightning PCs ($125) throughout my system.  My CD, preamp, and amps were plugged into the "Bybee box".

I had the "Bybee box" plugged into a Walker Velocitor, which yielded a slightly better sound.  Not 3k better, but better.

I haven't tried the balanced power units with this combo yet.  I've been enjoying this setup too much.

[guest1632]

I like Ray's idea of having a stereo version.

But I think $800 per mono block is very reasonable if it really is a giant slayer.

When you consider that there are amps that cost 5k and sound rubbish then you are most definately starting a price war against the high end country club. But it will be a just war   :wink:

Hi, Well, not to hijack this thread to much, but Newfource would be wise to bring out the stereo .70 version and market it to the chain stores like Best Buy and Circuit City. crazy! no, it would definitely get the product out there. The R&D is already done, putting the mono in one box would not be that difficult. I think Best Buy for ex. carries Parasound, wihch in some circles of there product line is definitely high end. If marketting to the massis is one of the goals of this company, then there's a start. I think there will be a time coming in unfortunately the not to distant future where $1600 is gonna be a lot for a lot of people. Not exactly doom and gloom, but the signs are there. Newforce is on the right track. They wouldn't be intensionally starting a price war, but because the stuff sounds so good, it would hopefully force these high end vendors to take a second look, hopefully a looong 2nd look. If you look back at all of the major players in the industry, people like Bob carver Saul Win, Saul Marantz, Dolquist, John Bedini, and some countless others, they were in some ways ahead of there time. That is where Newforce is now. Sorry, to rant here, but I personally look forward to seeing what they can come out with in the future.

Ray Bronk

[Hantra]

Newfource would be wise to bring out the stereo .70 version and market it to the chain stores like Best Buy and Circuit City...

                     

[guest1632]

Newfource would be wise to bring out the stereo .70 version and market it to the chain stores like Best Buy and Circuit City...

Like that huh.  Smile bak. Look at someone like bob Carver, In some ways, his stuff was revolusionary, that little cube amp of his with a few little mods was rather decent. Now his sunfire sutff is up there in the high end circles.
Saul Win with his "Weathers" turntable was at that time a real headturner and was afordable by the masses. We all know what Saul Marantz did. The late John Daulquist made some speakers like the DQ10, that had a lot of notarity and a lot of people bought them. Now John Bedini somewhere up in ID I think, built an amplifier using only diodes. His problem was marketting. Now he was never in the mass stores, but you look at Harmon Carden whose amps were perhaps midfi in today's world, but before the big conglomeret took over produced an interesting cassette deck, that for its time beat the pants off a lot of machines. Now I realize I have only been in the audio world since my senior year in high school some 30 years ago. I really don't have to much clue what is out there now. I in no way could pretend to keep up with the stuff out there. There was a lot of junk out there back then, and now that junk has gotten a lot mor sophisticated. You have to start somewhere.  That's all I am saying. So go ahead and laugh, grin, the laugh is on me.

Ray


 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[Hantra]

Nahh Ray I'm not laughing at you.  I'm just saying what you said was funny b/c it might be the WORST thing they could do to their credibility as a high-end player.

[Agisthos]

I'm not convinced that putting together one of the most expensive tweeters with one of the most expensive mids and one of the most expensive woofers necessarily equates to the ultimate system.

This same analogy seems to apply to most of the high end, especially in amplifier design.

There seems to be a whole heap of amp manufacturers out there who take a 20 year old design and just start adding the most expensive capacitors, silver wire, hand wound transformers e.t.c until pretty soon they have to charge 10k-20k to even cover their costs.

But the fundamental amplifier design is still the same and it shows they have no engineering creativity.
That is why when new topologies like Nuforce come along it is exciting cos I hope it can break that cycle

[guest1632]

Nahh Ray I'm not laughing at you.  I'm just saying what you said was funny b/c it might be the WORST thing they could do to their credibility as a high-end player.

Well, I would be also going after the "midfi" market, and that would raise the bar a lot. Everybody knows McDonalds hamburgers aren't the best in the world, but they are a household name. It's all in the marketing stragety.

Ray

[nuforce]

I read the posting about Stereo and Best Buy etc.
I can't disclose our plan for the rest of 2005. But we're going to further surprise a lot of people. Coming up with a Stereo amp is too incremental.  We think the Ref series monoblock amp and preamp will be very competitive in $2K to $20K audiophile amplififers market.
If we want to enter the premium consumer market (ie BOSE's market), we want to have a product that has the shock and awe impact. Also a product that can be a category killer. Ok, please don't speculate.

Jason

[guest1632]

I read the posting about Stereo and Best Buy etc.
I can't disclose our plan for the rest of 2005. But we're going to further surprise a lot of people. Coming up with a Stereo amp is too incremental.  We think the Ref series monoblock amp and preamp will be very competitive in $2K to $20K audiophile amplififers market.
If we want to enter the premium consumer market (ie BOSE's market), we want to have a product that has the shock and awe impact. Also a product that can be a category killer. Ok, please don't speculate.

Jason

"Coming up with a Stereo amp is too incremental." Hi Jason, Pardon me for asking, what does that mean? puzzled. I do understand that you guys are trying for a specific premium market, but what about the "midfi" market that has been sorta staggnant for years. That's why I suggested the stereo .70 version, strictly for that market. I don't think I am asking for the future, but if you want to PM me that's ok. Maybe, make that .70 unit a 5 or 6 channel version ion in one box for home theather stuff. Hey just some thoughts.

Ray

[WerTicus]

given the size of the amp - a stereo version seems pointless - maybe just chuck some sticky tape around it and its done!

what a consumer will want is a remote control for volume - i.e. a build in pre amp.

[Rocket]

Hi,

I don't mean to start an argument with anyone but i don't really agree with trying to market to the midfi market.  That market is really after super cheap all in one hifi products with about $500us or thereabout.

It will be interesting to read what nuforce comes up with.

Regards

Rod