Does Anyone have any experience with Nuforce Amps?

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Rocket

Does Anyone have any experience with Nuforce Amps?
« on: 26 Mar 2005, 06:58 am »
Hi Guys,

I went to a hifi dealer today and auditioned a Nuforce Amplifier which is made in the states.  Anyway i listened to it for about 2 hours and this amplifier Really is a great sounding piece of equipment.

The dealer stocks bel canto amplifiers and he thinks it sounds a little better than the megabuck monoblocks he sells.

It has many of the attributes of tube amplifiers but still reproduces excellent bass.  The soundstage width is outstanding imo and had my foot tapping for over 2 hours.  When i listen to other digital amplifiers bel canto and ps audio they don't sound nearly as good as this little amp.

Anyway i'd like to know if anyone else has heard this amplifier and whether they liked it or not?

Regards

Rod

lonewolfny42

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Does Anyone have any experience with Nuforce Amps?
« Reply #1 on: 26 Mar 2005, 07:17 am »
Rod,
    Is
this the company ???[/list:u]
    And which model did you hear ?  Thanks !! :) [/list:u]
      I also found this...
http://www.shows.soundstagelive.com/shows/ces2005/standout_nuforce.shtml[/list:u]
    Quote
    These three-pound, 140W switching amplifiers are said to operate in the analog domain and generate little heat.
    [/list:u] Three pounds....no heat... 8)

    lonewolfny42

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    « Reply #2 on: 26 Mar 2005, 08:29 am »
    Quote
    Although I don’t see NuForce threatening Tripath or ICEpower any time soon, I hope the company can attract some deep-pocketed manufacturer to license its technology. The Sound Dynamics speakers were pretty good, but they’d never impressed me in my system as they did in the NuForce setup. I can’t help but think that the gentlemen from San Jose, California have created a technology to rival Dr. Tripath’s, and perhaps outperform it. For such a dramatic entrance into high-end audio, NuForce’s little amp deserves a big Jimmy on the mantelpiece
      http://www.soundstageav.com/onhifi/20050115.htm [/list:u]

      Rocket

      Does Anyone have any experience with Nuforce Amps?
      « Reply #3 on: 26 Mar 2005, 09:47 am »
      Hi Chris,

      I have already read that comment from soundstage, i think the guy needs to have his ears washed out (he actually contradicts himself in the same quote  :nono: ).

      The amplifier i heard was the nuforce 70 watter monoblocks which is going to be released shortly and apparently the 140 watt amp is better than the one i heard.  I heard this amplifier on the following system;

      Bel Canto Cdp
      Bel Canto Pre
      Nuforce 70 Watt Monoblocks
      War Audio Reference 1's (raven 1 ribbon tweeter $200us each, Accuton midrange, Cabasse 8 inch bass driver) these speakers aren't entry level and are Very revealing.

      It's a pity i have just purchased a ps audio hca - 2 as the nuforce sounds like a gem and costs a lot less.  About $1500au landed in oz  :) .

      Regards

      Rod

      lonewolfny42

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      « Reply #4 on: 26 Mar 2005, 03:31 pm »
      Rocket :
        Quote
        It's a pity i have just purchased a ps audio hca - 2 as the nuforce sounds like a gem and costs a lot less. About $1500au landed in oz ...
        [/list:u]
          Rod, its always best to take you time when selecting new piece's for your system. Explore all options....but...something else is always coming down the road..... :roll: . Why not see if you can borrow the NuForce for a home demo in your system ?[/list:u]
            Chris[/list:u]

        Jon L

        Does Anyone have any experience with Nuforce Amps?
        « Reply #5 on: 26 Mar 2005, 07:09 pm »
        Every audiophile, even the hard-to-the-core addict, sometimes just wishes for a no-tweak, no-sweat system that just works and sounds great.

        In a few years, I imagine my system will have moved to a more refined version of one of these switching amplifiers, maybe with latest-greatest DAC installed internally, maybe even with USB 2.0 input.  I'll just hook up my computer up to it with USB, use some decent zip cords to simple speakers and be done.  

        With what seems to be a tidal wave of these economical digital amps, I think all the music lovers and audiophiles, and even the unknowing masses, will all benefit from more performance for their dollar eventually.  There will always be a group of people who will be clutching their SET's, OTL's, modded Dynaco 's, to their deathbed, and I may even be one of them, but I whole-heartedly welcome anything that will make beautiful music at cheaper prices.  

        I still vividly remember one having to pay $10-20K for a pair of decent-sounding class A monoblocks while the dealer simply rapes your pocketbook.  Seems like just yesterday.... Wait, it WAS yesterday  :mrgreen:

        _scotty_

        Does Anyone have any experience with Nuforce Amps?
        « Reply #6 on: 27 Mar 2005, 12:05 am »
        A critical piece of information is lacking on the NuForce website.  There is no mention of the amplifiers power delivery into loads of less than 8ohms.  It would be nice if they would give at least give a 4ohm rating.  I would like to see the amplifier double its output into a 4 ohm load.  This would be more illustrative of its performance with realworld loudspeakers.
        Scotty

        Rocket

        Does Anyone have any experience with Nuforce Amps?
        « Reply #7 on: 27 Mar 2005, 12:54 am »
        Hi,

        It's so hard living in a remote city (1800 miles from adelaide) and wanting to demo hifi products.  Most of the hifi dealers in perth sell arcam, creek and the hi end gear is hideously expensive.

        Anyway my ps audio amp is sounding a lot better as i replaced 4 caps in the signal path with blackgates.  In its unmodified state it sounded very unappealing imo.

        For $1500au there is nothing i've heard in perth that sounds as good as the nuforce amps.  What i really liked was the low level detail we were hearing as most of the time i have to turn a system up to get it to sound nice.  These amps were the 70 watt version and apparently the 100 watt version ($1500us) sound even better.

        Anyway i just wanted to let you know about another possible cheaper alternative in amplification  :) .

        Btw these amps are small and ugly.

        Regards

        Rod

        kck

        Does Anyone have any experience with Nuforce Amps?
        « Reply #8 on: 27 Mar 2005, 05:10 pm »
        Quote from: _scotty_
        A critical piece of information is lacking on the NuForce website.  There is no mention of the amplifiers power delivery into loads of less than 8ohms.  It would be nice if they would give at least give a 4ohm rating.  I would like to see the amplifier double its output into a 4 ohm load.  This would be more illustrative of its performance with realworld loudspeakers.
        Scotty


        This is something I am noticing a lot of and it is wayyy out of proportion to the number of 4 ohm, etc, speakers being sold and used out there. I would fake a guess that perhaps 25% of all speakers (at least) in use are less than 8 ohms, but very very few amps rate their power into 4 ohms. This is like the 6 hot dogs/8 buns stupidness, only more serious.
        So should one assume that the 4 ohm specs are ridiculous and therefore not published? Or what?

        Re the Soundstage guy contradicting himself... LOL, absolutely true! I guess the editor was on vacation that day, huh?

        Soapbox: Is it just me or do you guys feel the standards of many service industries in this country are dropping like a stone? Who is really to blame for this outsourcing mess? Wait till the Chinese, as a society, get proficient in English! We will then be royally screwed. Many people here have no idea how motivated they are and committed to world domination. I am serious.

        lonewolfny42

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        « Reply #9 on: 27 Mar 2005, 05:29 pm »
        kck :
          Quote
          Many people here have no idea how motivated they are and committed to world domination. I am serious.
          [/list:u]
            Guess I better find my chop sticks... :o  ( I'm not serious).[/list:u]

          mcgsxr

          Does Anyone have any experience with Nuforce Amps?
          « Reply #10 on: 27 Mar 2005, 05:33 pm »
          Quote
          Many people here have no idea how motivated they are and committed to world domination. I am serious.


          Well, if by world domination, you mean business, then I agree with you.

          If, however, you mean a Binky and the Brain, "Tonight we will plan to take over the world..", then good luck!

          Rocket

          Does Anyone have any experience with Nuforce Amps?
          « Reply #11 on: 4 Apr 2005, 01:01 am »
          Hi Guys,

          This is a short review which my dealer wrote recently and is posted on the nuforce site.

          http://www.nuforce.com/reviews/waraudio/waraudio-review.htm

          Nuforce is selling some amps on a closeout special for $500us and i thought i'd post it if anyone is interested.

          http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1117605521

          Regards

          Rod

          Jon L

          Does Anyone have any experience with Nuforce Amps?
          « Reply #12 on: 4 Apr 2005, 01:45 am »
          Hmm.  RMS power is 100 wpc into 8 Ohms and 100 wpc into 4 Ohms as well per their tables even though "peak power" goes up into 4 Ohms.

          Usually, this would not be a good sign for conventional amps..

          MGDeWulf

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          Does Anyone have any experience with Nuforce Amps?
          « Reply #13 on: 5 Apr 2005, 04:22 am »
          Maybe someone caught this earlier, but the NuForce is not a digital amp. It's an analog switching amp.  For comparison, the Chord amps are analog switching amps too.  It simply means that the power supply switches at a  frequency higher than the standard 60 Hz.

          I'm not saying that the NuForce sounds like the Chord, but it shouldn't sound like the Bel Canto, PS etc., etc. of the so called digital amps.

          Disregard this if I'm repeating what someone has already said.

          Good listening,

          Marty

          GBB

          Does Anyone have any experience with Nuforce Amps?
          « Reply #14 on: 5 Apr 2005, 11:21 am »
          Marty,
          I'm not sure I follow the distinction that you are making.  If I read the Nuforce website and their published patents then it appears that they are selling a true Class D amplifier (with a few twists) which is different from just using a switching power supply.

          Is the difference in comparison to something like a Tripath amplifier where they do some additional digital signal processing in addition to being a Class D amp?

          Thanks for any more info.
          ---Gary

          Rocket

          Does Anyone have any experience with Nuforce Amps?
          « Reply #15 on: 5 Apr 2005, 01:35 pm »
          Hi,

          I think i read somewhere that it is a class T amplifier.

          All i know is that it sounds excellent and i am considering purchasing one at the price they are asking.

          Regards

          Rod

          audiojerry

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          Does Anyone have any experience with Nuforce Amps?
          « Reply #16 on: 5 Apr 2005, 03:13 pm »
          Quote from: Rocket
          Hi,
          All i know is that it sounds excellent and i am considering purchasing one at the price they are asking.
          Rod


          Me too - thanks for the heads up Rocket.

          Maybe we should persuade the Nuforce folks to offer some kind of audition to AC  :wink:

          MGDeWulf

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          • Posts: 85
          Does Anyone have any experience with Nuforce Amps?
          « Reply #17 on: 5 Apr 2005, 05:28 pm »
          Hi GBB:

          I checked the website to look into the technology of the amp.  The site says that it is not a digital amp, but an analog amp - I took my info directly from the site.  The comparison to the Chord was my idea since it too is an analog switching amp.  They have no digital parts in them, nor are they PCM - should reduce the potential for noise.  For the money, the NuForce looks real sweet.

          Good listening,
          Marty

          GBB

          Does Anyone have any experience with Nuforce Amps?
          « Reply #18 on: 5 Apr 2005, 07:06 pm »
          Marty,
          You can call me Gary.

          If you look at their website (www.nuforce.com) they call it an analog switching amplifier, which I think is a euphemism for a digital amp.  Perhaps they think that calling it a digital amp will scare us off.

          The parent company of Nuforce is Nphysics (www.nphysics.com) and their website is a little clearer in explaining that their amps do in fact use pulse width modulation (PWM), just like all other digital amps.  They have some patented techniques to minimize the digital artifacts and the few reviews on the web seem to indicate they may be on to something.

          I was tempted enough to order a pair of their 70W amps.  I'll weigh in when they arrive and report back on how they compare to a pair of Flying Mole digital amps that I'm using right now.  I've compared the Flying Moles to an untweaked Class T tripath amp (the TEAC A-L700P) and I find the flying mole to be much better.

          ---Gary

          nuforce

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          Response from NuForce
          « Reply #19 on: 5 Apr 2005, 09:04 pm »
          Hi, I was informed by a user that we're generating some buzz here (and may be everywhere).  I will like to thank many users for their feedback and posting.  Let me tell you a little about us and also try to answer some of the questions.

          We're a new company and have been working on power conversion and amplifier for the past 3 years. Our CTO was the principal architect of the Tomahawk cruise missile power system and he designed many highly reliable power and control systems.  Switching amplifier design is primarily a feedback and control and power system problem.  So we applied our proprietary modulation scheme and close-loop design to a classic class-D amplifier topology. Just like many other derivative Class D system out there (Class T, etc), the fundamental topology is similar to Class D but you can call it anything you want. It is just marketing.

          We like to present technical information as accurate as possible without marketing hype and let our customers speak for us.

          We called our amplifier "Analog Switching Amplifier" to differentiate it from other switching amplifiers that use DSP or digital techniques. Our PWM is clockless and in our system, there is no sampling and no decimation error . The modulated signal represents the engery of the input signal. Our system is close-loop in that any error (all amplifiers have error) is being feedback from the speaker terminal and corrected at every cycle.  Phase shift is another problem for most amplifiers, but not ours.

          Some of the quesitons were posted before we updated our website. So, please check www.nuforce.com frequently for new FAQ, technical information, products, reviews or dealers.
          There is a good FAQ on Power rating.  This is one of the most confusing area (especially due to a lot of marketing hype and manipulatoin with spec).  RMS power is the maxmium continuous power you can derive from the power supply. Therefore regardless of the output load, it is the same.   We have published power rating for 4 ohm (we can put up the numbers for 2 ohm but it is just a multiplication). Our amplifier can drive just about any output load (within the limitation of the power supply).

          Jason
          President, NuForce