JVC RX-F10 and Gallo Reference 3

srayle · « **on:** 23 Mar 2005, 05:58 am »

O.K., I finally gt thse back-ordered Gallo's in a coulpla days ago. Now, the gallo's are really supposed to go through about 100 hours of loud (95-ish dB) break-in for the acoustic window to open and their inner beauty shine.

Well, let me tell you, even straight out of the box, these speakers are really something else, and the JVC drives them with beauty and ease. I love the way my system sounds, and hose strange and wonderful speakers aren't even broken in yet. I'm running my Ah Tjoeb 400 tube output through, no power conitioning, no fancy IC's (Signal Cable), and am using Home Depot 14g extension cord for the speaker cable for now, and it all sounds soooo goood! Deep, 3-dimensional, musical, clear...plenty of power in the JVC to drive these speaker...If/ when I want to change this system, I'd first try out some fancier IC's, and a part of me would still like to try a tube amp to see how it changes things (maybe a Prima Luna Prologue 2). Otherwise, I've not got amp-upgrade-itis...this thing sounds jes fine, and these speakers really ARE as good as they say, and they're not even broken in yet!

I'm happy just listening to da music!

ted_b · « **Reply #1 on:** 23 Mar 2005, 01:49 pm »

Great feedback. How big's your room? Do you play them loud at all, and if so, do you sense any breakup? Could you describe your sweetspot (how wide, how far do you sit from speakers) and the speakers position relative to front and side walls? Thx,

Ted

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #2 on:** 23 Mar 2005, 03:35 pm »

srayle,

If you change one thing in your system....get power conditioning. It doesn't have to be rediculously priced, but get some...you'll never know how good the F10 is until you do.

An inexpensive OneAC may do it, and I'm not sure an inexpensive Monster Cable PowerBar (or maybe PS Audio Ultimate Outlet) wouldn't be the ticket either. Spending the same $$ as you might on fancy IC's, you'll likely get far more enjoyment for it.

Yeah, I'm actually getting kinda' tired of hearing myself espouse the same thing over and over again....but if you like what it can do now, it will improve rather more dramatically than you think it would with a good (or better great - like a balanced power unit) conditioner. I wish it weren't so because I'm no fan of overspending, but it is.

Ciao

srayle · « **Reply #3 on:** 23 Mar 2005, 03:38 pm »

Well, I just got them a few days ago, and was expecting them to sound just ok brand new, but was very impressed right away. I just set them up, woofers pointing out, about 8 feet apart, toe'd them in a little, and let 'em play. Amazing. I haven't yet experimented with positioning, etc., until the are burned in, which I guess is about 100 hours of loud (90-95 dB) playing. So, I have them covered with comforters, sleeping bags, and am letting them play when I'm away.

There's defimitely a sweet spot, but the Gallos sound great when I'm elsewhere in the house, as I often turn on the music and do stuff around the house, in addition to dedicated listening.

I do think they match really well with the JVC, and will report in again as the burn-in continues.

KKM · « **Reply #4 on:** 23 Mar 2005, 06:45 pm »

srayle,
How long did you have to wait from order to receiving them? I'm thinking of getting the Gallo's, being a former Magnepan 3.6 owner, I hope they are up to task. Have fun with your new speakers.

miklorsmith · « **Reply #5 on:** 23 Mar 2005, 07:07 pm »

I had the Gallos and sold them. Not that they aren't great speakers, because they are. Their bass extension (especially with second amp) is incredible for their size. Treble extension and clarity without glare are almost unbelievable. They disappear and image better than anything I've heard. There were times I just stared at them trying to figure out whether the source of sound was coming from where my eyes saw the speakers.

But - while the midrange is not recessed, it is not the stuff love-affairs are made of. I'd say that I deeply respected the Gallos but never loved them, a distinction I only made when I built a pair of Fostex boxes. The Fostexes are imbalanced and do not play some kinds of music well at all. However, at dynamics and tone, especially around the middle, they kicked the teeth out of the Gallos.

I tried them with three amps, all solid state. I have a tube CDP and tube pre. Maybe the system-matching love wasn't there, but I doubt the fundamental balance/impact would be significantly changed upstream.

I'm looking for a commercial full-ranger that keeps the strengths of the project speakers but cures the ills. Apparently this is very hard to do. I tried some Decwares, but they didn't fix the balance problems and I had to pass on them.

It comes down to a matter of taste and I don't mean to discourage anybody from listening to the Gallos and/or buying them. As I said, they are top-of-class at many things. This post is intended only as a contrary opinion since all the press these have gotten is glowing.

Horizons · « **Reply #6 on:** 23 Mar 2005, 07:14 pm »

Quote from: TheChairGuy

srayle,

If you change one thing in your system....get power conditioning. It doesn't have to be rediculously priced, but get some...you'll never know how good the F10 is until you do.

Ditto what TheChairGuy said.

Can you biwire the Gallos? If so, you might want to use the F10 regular outputs for the lows and the surround outputs for the highs. That way, you have 100W x 4 driving the Gallos. Biamping is even better with the F10, but that is another post. When I biamp my Maggie 1.6Qrs with the F10 it sounds better than many tube amps that I have owned. Many pricey tube amps. The F10 is fully capable of producing major goosebumps with the right speakers and source materials. Allison Krauss visits my listening room very frequently.

srayle · « **Reply #7 on:** 23 Mar 2005, 07:46 pm »

>Ordered mine the beginning of November, just got em in a few days ago. I think there's stil quite a wait, if you order them now, unless they're ramping up production.

>For the JVC, would the standard PS audio conditioner suffice, or the 15 amp one, especially if used with more than 2 channels? Is it worth upgrading the power cord, too?

>As far as powering the 2nd voice coils with the JVC, would you use the sub out, or do you need a separate sub amp? Is bi-wiring possible as horizons explained, but not using the 2nd voice coil (sub)? What makes a speaker bi-wirable? Gallo cautions against using a single receiver/amp for both the sub as it might easily over-heat the amp and cause it to shut down. Plus, I think using these other arrangements takes it out of the 'dvd-multi' setting that sounds the best.

Horizons · « **Reply #8 on:** 23 Mar 2005, 09:06 pm »

Quote from: srayle

I think using these other arrangements takes it out of the 'dvd-multi' setting that sounds the best.

No, I am still using DVD-Multi. I just "Y" the signal from my source and route one set of stereo channels into DVD IN and one set into the surround inputs. This way you are using pure 2 channel mode but using 4 identical amps. It works great with my Maggies, I have no clue whether it will work with the Gallos. I just thought it was worth trying.

miklorsmith · « **Reply #9 on:** 23 Mar 2005, 09:35 pm »

The two sets of plugs on the Gallos are not a conventional bi-wire/bi-amp arrangement where one set goes to the tweeter and the other goes to the woofer. One set runs the speaker full-range, and the other adds the bottom octave. The sub-in doesn't have a crossover, so this needs to be dealt with in the electronics.

Either a dedicated sub amp or a conventional amp with external filtering would work. The Gallo amp would be best, but I was using a Harrison Fmod low-pass arrangement plugged into an integrated amp. The volume control acted as the leveler. If you have an integrated, this is the way to go to see how it works.

The difficulty with the Harrison arrangement is that they don't offer any values lower than 50 hz. The primary voice coil powers the woofer to about 40 hz, so a simple 50 hz value allows too much overlap and you will get a pronounced rise between 40 hz and 50 hz. You may like this. The Fmods can be combined however, where a 50 hz and 100 hz combined yield a value of around 40 hz, which worked pretty well in my system.

STEPH9985 · « **Reply #10 on:** 23 Mar 2005, 10:00 pm »

You cannot bi-wire the Gallos.The second set of posts is for the second coil in the woofer.You would need a seperate sub amp.Bi-wiring means that the woofer is attached to one set of posts and the other speaker or speakers are attached to another set.Usually there is a connecter between the two sets for normal use.You remove that connector and use in effect two sets of wires from the amp to the speakers.(Simplified)I own the Gallos and believe they are one of the best speakers I have heard,and they are by far the least expensive of three setups in my house.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #11 on:** 23 Mar 2005, 10:18 pm »

Quote from: srayle

>Ordered mine the beginning of November, just got em in a few days ago. I think there's stil quite a wait, if you order them now, unless they're ramping up production.

Answer: I understand that the Gallo's take along time to break in...you may want to nothing at all until those are cooked in.

Quote from: srayle

>For the JVC, would the standard PS audio conditioner suffice, or the 15 amp one, especially if used with more than 2 channels? Is it worth upgrading the power cord, too?

Answer: Depends on how many components, and what, you plug into the conditioner. The standard PS Audio Ultimate Outlet sure would be enough for the F10, a digital source and a turntable. If this is an integrated video system with a TV or powered subs, you'll need the High Output model or another brand of conditioner that will handle things.

I hard wired a power cord and heard no differences in doing so...the first component that ever happened with. But, I have EM and RF rejection extremis....a BPT, 2 Ultra ZSleeves, 2 standard Zsleeves and Alpha Core IC's (not shielded, but reported to have high RF/EM rejection rate due to th twist). The cheapest way to start things off would be a High Wire PowerWrap for your cord...about $25. They work really well for the money.

I have a 16 amp BPT unit and it is overkill for my system now..tho it was bought when I had higher powered class AB amps in the mix.

Quote from: srayle

>As far as powering the 2nd voice coils with the JVC, would you use the sub out, or do you need a separate sub amp? Is bi-wiring possible as horizons explaine ...

Answer: Beats me..best ask someone more qualified (like any orangutan at the San Diego Zoo). Or, Mr. Horizons

Horizons · « **Reply #12 on:** 24 Mar 2005, 12:35 am »

OK, so biwiring/biamping is out.

Keep us posted on the Gallos. If they are half as good as the six moons review says they are, they are giant killers.

kck · « **Reply #13 on:** 24 Mar 2005, 03:08 am »

Quote from: Horizons

Quote from: srayle
I think using these other arrangements takes it out of the 'dvd-multi' setting that sounds the best.

No, I am still using DVD-Multi. I just "Y" the signal from my source and route one set of stereo channels into DVD IN and one set into the surround inputs. This way you are using pure 2 channel mode but using 4 identical amps. It works great with my Maggies, I have no clue whether it will work with the Gallos. I just thought it was worth trying.

Mr. Horizons!! What are you saying?! I thought using the two channels of DVD Multi was the only way to get the pure sound. As my cdp has two sets of outputs (and conveniently, I have two identical sets of ICs) I don't even have to 'Y' it out? Just run to the four channels and that's it?

I have been feeling that the JVC is great and would be greater if it had more power, translated as headroom. Maybe this is my solution.

Thanks... I will try it asap.

Horizons · « **Reply #14 on:** 24 Mar 2005, 06:56 pm »

Quote from: kck

Mr. Horizons!! What are you saying?! I thought using the two channels of DVD Multi was the only way to get the pure sound. As my cdp has two sets of outputs (and conveniently, I have two identical sets of ICs) I don't even have to 'Y' it out? Just run to the four channels and that's it?

My understanding of DVD/Multi is that you can run two channel or run the full five channel analog outputs of say an SACD player. I am not using center or sub or anything else but in this mode the front L+R channels sound identical to the surround L+R. I don't hear any processing going on at all, just more clean digital power.

As I said before, the ultimate use of this is for biamping which brings out the ultimate from the JVC as well as the Maggies.

Try it and let me know if you like it as much as I do...

kck · « **Reply #15 on:** 24 Mar 2005, 08:14 pm »

Thanks! Let me request a clarification though: are you running one set of speaker cables from (say) the surround outputs of the F10 to (say) the bass terminals of the speakers? Likewise for mains to treble? My understanding of true biamping (I could be wrong, not an expert) is that it involves a crossover before the amp. Otherwise, you are sending what amounts to 'wasted' information to each of the sets of terminals. OK and not a problem as long as you accept that.
And yes, keeping the F10's price in perspective this is not an issue, just wondering.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #16 on:** 24 Mar 2005, 08:46 pm »

I believe you are both correct.

One way is passive biamping, where each set of terminals receives a full range signal, and passive components inside the speaker Xover trim the unnecessary portion of the signal.

The other way is active biamping - this is where either a line level Xover, or digital Xover are used to remove the unnecessary portion of the signal, PRIOR to amplifying the signal, and then the terminals receive that portion of the signal...

There are probably better ways to describe this, but hopefully the message is conveyed.

The Zard · « **Reply #17 on:** 24 Mar 2005, 08:59 pm »

The Bright Star dedicated Gallo Ref. 3 stands are a fantasic improvement in my system and room and out of it!
It does raise the cost as well as the altitude!
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Horizons · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 Mar 2005, 09:15 pm »

In my actual situation, I had the stock Maggie 1.6QR crossovers modelled for the 47K ohm input impedance of the F10 inputs. My source goes into the inline passive low level crossover. From there, the R + L low outputs go into the main DVD inputs. The R + L high outputs goes into the surround inputs. Then the woofers are connected to the main outputs and the tweeters are connected to the surround outputs.

Works wonders. I guess I am actually triamping as I also have a dedicated powered sub.

FWIW, I am not a believer in biwiring but biamping is the real deal.

JohnnyLightOn · « **Reply #19 on:** 29 Mar 2005, 07:02 am »

Based on this thread, I have just bi-amped my F10 into my B&W Matrix 3 Series 2. I used Home Depot HD14 as my tweeter-side wire and a pair of $3 Y-adaptors that split the Cardas interconnect coming out of my dAck! DAC. (The F10's spring clips were a huge pain to work with. I think they should be illegal.

)

The bi-amping improvements are significant: substantially more bass (but not as much as my speakers have when run by a high current amp), richer, warmer, more relaxed, better imaging. I have a feeling the Y-adaptors are ruining the sound, however, because it's not nearly as listenable as before. It sounds smeared and a little hazy. I'm going to get some better Y-adaptors and try out some short runs of 12 ga magnet wire speaker cable to fix these problems.

Thanks to everyone who posted about this!