[Jumpin]

So we are building a townhouse on the Jersey shore with a large loft on the 4th floor.  When i ask the builder about low voltage wiring for a surround set up, they tell me that “it’s not necessary, everyone is going wireless these days”.  Is their such a thing as a good wireless surround set up?  If, so, what would you recommend?  Have any of you run into this situation and what have you done?  I imagine I could have my electrician do something more conventional if need be once we move in. 

[jtwrace]

Yes, most non audiophile/videophile does go wireless...pull the darn wires!

[Phil A]

During busy building times, builders probably don't want to do non-standard things as much.  Yes, I'm sure there are wireless options but speaker wire is cheap (probably tons cheaper than wireless options and unlike electronics is likely to last whole lot longer) and easy to do when the walls are open.  There's also tons of products to hide wire later on from hollow plastic moulding that can be painted (some of which is available at Home Depot or Lowe's) or products at a site like - https://www.cableorganizer.com/

[Doublej]

If it were me I would run network, speaker, and low voltage control cables for home theater. If you want to see how one pro does it there's an Audioholics YouTube video where Don Dunn talks about what he runs for the megabucks setups.

[TomS]

I pre-ran gray pvc conduit before sheet rock to all the locations I thought I'd need from a crawlspace below and left a couple of pull wires in each one to a central home run spot/closet. In my case all I had to tell the inspector was "low voltage" and she didn't care about it. Last thing I did was take pictures of all of the conduit in the naked walls. I was sooooo glad I did it that way later.

[Jumpin]

Thanks so much for the answers so far!

[Jumpin]

Did any of you do in-wall speakers?

[TomS]

Did any of you do in-wall speakers?

Yes, in our previous house Paradigm Reference. In this house, GoldenEar Invisa series - HTR7000 and MPX

[WGH]

You will probably have to run the wire yourself so the two ends come out where your speakers and amp will be. The electrician can't read your mind and the drywaller doesn't care. Start with a 250' roll.
I used Monoprice Access Series 14AWG CL2 Rated 2-Conductor Speaker Wire
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=2817

While the walls are open figure out what speakers you plan to use. I have both in-ceiling Atmos and on-wall surround (concrete walls) speakers from Triad Speakers, they make in-wall too. Ebay is a great source if you have patience.
https://triadspeakers.com/

My ceiling is a little less than 8' high and the Triad speakers do not beam sound, I am still happy after 2 years. You may not want Atmos right now but in a couple of years you may change your mind.
Run 2 or 3 Ethernet lines to where the receiver and TV plug in, you will be happy you did later.

It took me months to figure out my home theater, sounds like you have less time.
"Researching ceiling speakers was daunting, I didn't know everybody and their brother-in-laws makes ceiling speakers with prices from real cheap to really expensive. I began narrowing down my search with a couple of requirements: they should disappear and be protected from blown insulation and the high 140 degree attic heat in Arizona."

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=163696.msg1762772#msg1762772

[Phil A]

Did any of you do in-wall speakers?

In the current house, I did in-ceiling speakers for the outside porch, as surround speakers in secondary systems and in the master bedroom for mains and surrounds (too much speakers and other stuff in the old house - even have a 92 inch projection screen in the new one that goes into the ceiling with the push of a buttom).  The only place I have in-ceilings in the main system is for rear Atmos speakers that was done after the initial building (have attic access in the living room).

There are on-wall speakers available as well and the better designed ones are not bad.  Everything depends on your goals and budget.  Before the house was going up, I sent them detailed diagrams of high (I have 300 amp electrical service - 50 amps, one 20 amp circuit and two 15 amp ones, for the main system) and low voltage wiring by room with placement for speakers, network cabling, etc.

[azchump]

I have built three new houses in the last 10 years including theater rooms.  If it is a true Theater room do not do wirelsss speakers.  During framing have an audio guy wire your loft properly.  I would not listen to any builder as it peretains to music or video.  If this is just a tv room then wireless is ok. 

[-Troy-]

I pre-ran gray pvc conduit before sheet rock to all the locations I thought I'd need from a crawlspace below and left a couple of pull wires in each one to a central home run spot/closet. In my case all I had to tell the inspector was "low voltage" and she didn't care about it. Last thing I did was take pictures of all of the conduit in the naked walls. I was sooooo glad I did it that way later.

I've helped friends and family with the layout of new construction on a few houses now, and this is what I tell them to do every time.  You never know when cable technology will change or you decide to add something else later and running conduit for all your communication/low voltage cables is the smartest way to do it.  It will save you a headache in the future.  Also being a licensed building inspector doesn't hurt either. 

[Carlman]

I wish I'd done conduit... 'nuff said about that.

But I did prewire everything in my house during construction.  Wireless is not an option for me.  Plus it's not wireless.  You still have to plug in the speakers to power... not easily integrated to be finished/neat and totally out of the way.  That's a good solution for an apartment, though.

I ran speaker cable, cat6, hdmi, and interconnects wherever I needed it.  "Low voltage" is all the electrical inspector needed to hear.  They know what it is and don't care in my area (NC).  It's up to the electrician to talk to the inspector anyway... so just be aligned with your electrician with whatever you end up doing.

It was SOOO hot when they were building my house.  I wish I had more energy to handle 104* with no power/no fan working after hours.. but I did what I was capable of at the time.   We added a basement later.. I simply got lost in the flow of things/ideas in my head when building and forgot to do conduit.  I also made the mistake of stapling a lot of my cables so I can't pull them back out or use them as pull-wires when technology changes... say if you need a 2.x version of HDMI cable later.. oh well.

Oh, and if you do pull HDMI or other terminated cables... be sure to over-protect the ends.

[Jumpin]

Still in discussions with the builder on this project.  They definitely do not allow outside contractors in to prewire (no surprise), but they may allow their contractor to do wiring to my contractor specifications.  If that does not work, I will see if they can simply install conduit.  Fortunately the Construction Director is a fellow Deadhead so he does understand my desire for superior sound quality.  On other note, my contractor is recommending Origin Acoustics for the in wall/ceiling speakers.  What I read about them looks good.  Ever hear of them?

[WGH]

...my contractor is recommending Origin Acoustics for the in wall/ceiling speakers.  What I read about them looks good.  Ever hear of them?

They look like good speakers, plenty of models to choose from too. I have never heard of them, looks like they are only available through a dealer/installer network.

A few things will determine your speaker choice: price, availability, and how close will everyone be sitting to the speakers.

I chose Triad speakers because my room is small and the ceiling is 95" high. I was concerned with the sound from one speaker being too loud at the side seats. The Triad sound is more diffuse than pin point, it works real well in my room, both "Dune" and the latest James Bond film "No Time To Die" have extensive and well done surround and Atmos sound and the Triad speakers fill up the room without being able to localize the speakers.

AVS Forum has a Triad Owner's thread. Dawn Gordon is still answering questions, she is a Triad installer but not selling her services, just helping people out. She even advises people that the most expensive model is not right for their room and the more affordable Bronze lineup will sound better. Triad speakers are made in the USA.
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/triad-owners-thread.921427/

It is hard to finding retail prices online. I discovered a 2016 Triad Catalog with prices, current pricing will be close.
> Download the PDF here <

I went with the Inwall Bronze4/Suround for Atmos and OnWall Bronze Surround because I have concrete block walls. Both speakers are in Bipole configuration, I believe they discontinued the Dipole although the used models on eBay come that way so the rear facing tweeter connections have to be reversed.

I prefer the square Atmos speaker grills, they blend in better than circles on the ceiling.


I have a few Triad posts with more info if you want to do a Search.

Don't worry about the low end response for surround and Atmos speakers, they are rolled off at 80Hz by the AVR and all bass in those channels is sent to the sub. Full range speakers are used for music when there is no sub.

[rklein]

A big factor in choosing speakers for a HT is what kind of amplification you plan on using.  Triad speakers while being great as they are, are not the most efficient so to make them sing stand alone amplification might be in order.  An AVR by itself might not do the trick.  If you are only going to be using an AVR, I would be looking at sensitivity @ 92 db and above.  However, some can get decent enough results with just an AVR...

In addition, you mentioned "Townhome".  Is this a detached or attached structure.  If attached, I would also be looking for speakers that sound really good at lower levels.

WGH mentioned Triad which is really good company.  Here is a link to all of the in-wall speakers that Crutchfield carries (whether they're in stock is another matter... ).

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-YXM6GqyBIbw/g_12600/In-wall-Speakers.html?&pg=2

[WGH]

Good point, I just checked and my Triad speakers are 84dB. I use an Anthem AVM60 processor with 4 multichannel amps so power is not a problem, the total is about 1740 class AB watts.

Since Triad is a high end brand I would guess that many people use a processor instead of a AVR or add separate amps as needed. I think Class D amps would be perfect for Atmos and surround, they run cool with plenty of power in a small package.

It would have been fun to hear the the $300,000 11.4.6 dts-X: PRO Demo w/ TRINNOV Audio Altitude 32 & TRIAD Speaker Demo at CEDIA 2019.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifPzkRNbZIQ

On a more practical level the RSL C34E Atmos ceiling speaker consistently gets high praise. About $125 each.
https://rslspeakers.com/products/c34e-edgeless-in-ceiling-speaker/

[rklein]

Good point, I just checked and my Triad speakers are 84dB. I use an Anthem AVM60 processor with 4 multichannel amps so power is not a problem, the total is about 1740 class AB watts.

Nice HT system.

Here are some in-walls from HSU

https://www.hsuresearch.com/products/hiw-1.html

[Jumpin]

I love this group.  Such well thought out & experienced responses.  I will mention Triad to my contractor and ask him what amplification he had in mind.  I was happy he brought up Origin.  If nothing else, it tells me he knows what he is doing and like me, is focused on high quality.  Hsu is interesting.  I remember them as high efficiency, so I would expect good with most amplification choices.  Still waiting to hear if my builder (Hovnanian) will do the wiring (or at minimum, conduit).

MJ

[Jumpin]

And, the units are attached so I will keep low level in mind.