Reliability?

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Inscrutable

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Reliability?
« on: 5 Aug 2021, 08:35 pm »
You see planar mags and stats with problems/issues … rarely will see any with cones. How prevalent do you find them? Certain precursors or causative factors that can be mitigated or must be avoided? Seriously considering first venture into planars (Maggies).

SteveFord

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Re: Reliability?
« Reply #1 on: 5 Aug 2021, 08:44 pm »
Somewhere around the end of the .6 series with Magnepan they changed the glue for the foil so that ended the delamination problems.
Before that you want to check to see what's going on under the cloth.

A belly flop onto the floor can cause problems these days but that's pretty much it.
Clipping will pop a ribbon so lots of power is a good thing.

Inscrutable

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Re: Reliability?
« Reply #2 on: 5 Aug 2021, 10:18 pm »
Somewhere around the end of the .6 series with Magnepan they changed the glue for the foil so that ended the delamination problems.
Before that you want to check to see what's going on under the cloth.

A belly flop onto the floor can cause problems these days but that's pretty much it.
Clipping will pop a ribbon so lots of power is a good thing.
Thanks! Good to hear. I’m looking at 1.7i’s. I am guessing they don’t attract dust and pet hair beyond normal furnishings(?)  Will be trying to keep the cats out of the listening room, but they are a lot quicker than me.

JakeJ

Re: Reliability?
« Reply #3 on: 5 Aug 2021, 10:44 pm »
LOL!  Yes Maggies are not dust magnets like electrostats.  Magnetic planar speakers do not require the high voltage charge that stators do in a 'stat.

SteveFord

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Re: Reliability?
« Reply #4 on: 5 Aug 2021, 11:40 pm »
Pet stores should have a cat-repellant to  spray on the cloth to keep them from using them as giant scratching posts.
I'd test a small spot on the rear to ensure that it doesn't stain the fabric just in case.

Inscrutable

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Re: Reliability?
« Reply #5 on: 7 Aug 2021, 10:54 am »
I’d be afraid the spray penetrates the fabric and gets to the film (?)
Thought about laying down some sticky side up film around each speaker until maybe trained to not approach.

twitch54

Re: Reliability?
« Reply #6 on: 7 Aug 2021, 12:10 pm »
  Will be trying to keep the cats out of the listening room, but they are a lot quicker than me.

good luck, hopefully you have a door to keep closed. Cats and Maggies are not a good combination !

timind

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Re: Reliability?
« Reply #7 on: 7 Aug 2021, 12:52 pm »
Cats and Magnepans? Yikes.

A while ago my daughter moved back home, temporarily thank goodness, and brought her cat. I wanted to keep the cat out of my stereo room and here's what worked. A mylar balloon with Spongebob Squarepants was left over from a birthday party and the cat wouldn't go near it. I anchored the balloon in the doorway to my room, about six inches off the ground. Cat would sneak up to the door, see the balloon and retreat. She never once went in the room while Spongebob was on duty.

SteveFord

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Re: Reliability?
« Reply #8 on: 7 Aug 2021, 01:32 pm »
Whatever works.
I had a great cat years ago and he never did go near them but I did give the cloths a light spray with cat repellant.
I don't know if that worked or if he just wasn't interested.

There's always the security guard approach.  It also works wonders with annoying solicitors and nosey neighbors:




Inscrutable

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Re: Reliability?
« Reply #9 on: 7 Aug 2021, 01:34 pm »
Whatever works.
I had a great cat years ago and he never did go near them but I did give the cloths a light spray with cat repellant.
I don't know if that worked or if he just wasn't interested.

There's always the security guard approach.  It also works wonders with annoying solicitors and nosey neighbors:


Well, it would certainly keep ME out of the room!

Inscrutable

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Re: Reliability?
« Reply #10 on: 7 Aug 2021, 01:37 pm »
Cats and Magnepans? Yikes.
Yeah, a couple years ago, one of them confused my big SDA’s with a scratching post. I can replace grill fabric on something like those, but Maggies more worrisome.

mcgsxr

Re: Reliability?
« Reply #11 on: 7 Aug 2021, 07:44 pm »
I have 3 cats.  I owned 1.6’s for a year.

One of the cats never even looked at them.  The younger 2 were the problem.  I’d find them each on top of a speaker at times.  They quite enjoyed climbing them. 

I sold the Maggie’s.  It felt like driving a Ferrari in the snow to keep them under those conditions. 

I never found a reliable solution though tinfoil on the floor around them might work.  All my cats HATE the sound of tinfoil being used. 

SteveFord

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Re: Reliability?
« Reply #12 on: 7 Aug 2021, 07:53 pm »
The subject of cats and speaker grills/socks made me do some research many years ago.
One of the scholarly tomes said that one of the most effective products is tiger urine which made me laugh.
It would take any awfully brave man to attempt to obtain a sample!

Jazzman53

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Re: Reliability?
« Reply #13 on: 29 Aug 2021, 11:07 pm »
I can't speak for Maggies but I will share my opinions on how and why some ESL's have been known to fail. 

An ESL is powered by a shackled demon who will exploit any weakness to break out and cause destruction.
The demon is the high-voltage corona, and the shackles are the opposing dielectric materials in the speaker (i.e. the air gap, stator coatings, wire insulation).

Complicating reliability is the fact that the demon must be only loosely bound, or the speaker won't make sound. The corona must penetrate and ionize (make conductive) the air gap between the stators, in order to apply the driving electrostatic force to diaphragm. 

Considering the above; the materials and construction of the motor are a balancing act. The photo below shows a metal pin wheel charged to 10,000 volts of electrical pressure.  Note the purple corona of ionization streaming off he sharp points on the pinwheel.  When focused in that way; the corona will burn thru any insulation and result in destructive arcing.     





The stator conductor(s) must be physically smooth with no sharp points or edges to focus he corona.  For this reason; DIY perf-metal stators are notoriously unreliable because most DIY'ers don't have the resources or tooling to make perf metal stators reliable  (Martin Logan does not use standard punched perf metal for their stators, and they are professionally powder coated-- even so; you occasionally hear of one going bad from arcing).  Martin Logan does use a highly resistive diaphragm coating, which does not readily sustain arcing.   

The old Acoustat ESL's were very reliable because they used insulated wire stators mounted on non-conductive plastic grids.  Quite a lot of them are still playing 40 years later.  And even though Acoustat used a [too-conductive] carbon-black coating on the diaphragms which was prone to arc-damage, they still played happily on for many years with hundreds of holes burned in the diaphragms-- amazing!

Sanders ESL's use milled PCB stators with encapsulated conductors (very reliable) and a highly resistive diaphragm coating and Sanders warrantees those panels for life. 

Dust and humidity are not good for ESL's... as both conditions can cause arcing problems. 

Martin Logans use no dust covers but they are reliable if you keep the dust vacuumed out regularly and use them in an air-conditioned environment to control the humidity.  Any significant dust buildup can cause arcing and shorted the speaker life.  I cringe whenever I hear that the folks on the Martin Logan owners forum actually wash their panels in a shower whenever they start losing output and sometimes that restores them. 

I build insulated wire stator ESL's and I have removable dust covers that stay ON most of the time.  I've never had any problems with mine.   




BruceSB

Re: Reliability?
« Reply #14 on: 30 Aug 2021, 02:18 am »
My ER Audio ESL IVs have removable dust covers.
They are held on by magnets.
I am told that the sound improves if you remove the dust covers.
However I don't really intend to try them out in coverless mode.
I listened to my spectra 22s for thirty three years with dust covers,
And, to be quite frank, I don't want to take a chance of some nasties (flies, moths, flying ants, or anything else),
Getting onto the stators and potentially causing damage!
It is all about caution.
Not that I am personally looking for another thirty three years,
I am sure that I don't have that many years left on the planet!
But I would like to pass them on to one of my boys when I do exit this world!
So I would like to keep them in the best possible nick.
Bruce

Letitroll98

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Re: Reliability?
« Reply #15 on: 30 Aug 2021, 12:00 pm »
I had a great cat years ago....



I guess we know what happened to the cat.

SteveFord

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Re: Reliability?
« Reply #16 on: 30 Aug 2021, 12:27 pm »
Anybody seen the dog?