[dareelbo]

Hi All,

I have a question I have not been able to get a clear answer to online:
If a device(pre-processor) has HDMI ARC, does that automatically imply that volume can be controlled by the destination device it gets its audio from(TV)?

I know that ARC stands for Audio Return Channel and I've seen this work in my own system (Outlaw 975 getting audio through HDMI ARC input, connected to ARC output on Vizio TV, source device is a Roku box connected to TV HDMI input). But in that case the TV sends audio to the Outlaw 975, but the TV can't control the volume of the Outlaw 975).

I'm having a hard time figuring out if this is an Outlaw 975 bug(ARC/CEC handshake issue?), or just a feature that isn't present in the Outlaw 975.
And I want to figure this out before blindly buying another pre-pro, expecting it to control audio.

Do I need to change my expectations of HDMI ARC?
Does this need to be clearly defined in the pre-pro feature list, or else volume control wont work?
Do I need to have an eARC pre-pro and TV to be sure this will work more flawlessly?

Thanks in advance!

[Theronbo]

Not tech or an expert…

I’ve been using ARC in various setups for awhile.

When it works it’s fabulous. But, definitely some inconsistencies that lead to frustration… simply just doesn’t always work… 95% of the time… sometimes hav3 to power cycle everything.

Currently use for my main TV & music in living room…

Apple TV 4K to Marantz AV to a Samsung 4K TV… love using just the Apple remote.

Bedroom, Amazon 4K stick to a Samsung sound bar to a Samsung standard definition TV.

This works pretty well, except th3 sound bar doesn’t always wake up. Keep its remote handy.. just to push power button… then I just use the Amazon Stick remote.

I would Assume the later generation HDMI the better the ARC support.  2.1 is latest.

Cables…

As they’ve revisioned 5he HDMI standard, they’ve increased the requirements on the cables… makes sense as the are attempting to push through more & mor3 bits…

I’ve bough5 a couple different ‘high end’ hdmi cables from Amazon… & it seems even the same brand can give different results.

This cable has worked well… Marantz AV to TV


Zeskit Maya 8K 48Gbps Certified Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable 16ft CL3 In Wall Rated, 4K120 8K60 eARC HDR HDCP 2.2 2.3 Compatible with Dolby Vision Apple TV 4K Roku Sony LG Samsung Xbox Series X PS4 PS5
by Zeskit
Learn more: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07S1BNM7K/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_07AW51K2B82QBEFC5KYE?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

[Doublej]

No.
Yes.
Yes.
No, you need a both devices to support CEC?

In order to pass volume levels to I think you need devices that support CEC and have CEC enabled. A quick search indicated that the 975 does not support CEC though you can try troubleshooting to see if the post I viewed is correct. There is mention of CEC control in the 976 manual.

https://support.outlawaudio.com/kb/faq.php?id=8

[WGH]

But in that case the TV sends audio to the Outlaw 975, but the TV can't control the volume of the Outlaw 975).

I'm having a hard time figuring out if this is an Outlaw 975 bug(ARC/CEC handshake issue?), or just a feature that isn't present in the Outlaw 975.

I used an Outlaw 975 for years and always controlled the volume with the Outlaw remote, don't know if I ever tried the TV remote but I bet it did nothing.
If you get sound through ARC then it's not a handshake issue. In all likelihood the problem is more complicated.

#1) The Outlaw doesn't have the HDMI-CEC option.

#2) A remote control issue. My Panasonic TV remote controls the volume but that is because it is communicating with the Anthem AVM 60 surround processor. The Anthem's volume goes up and down, not the TV. You might be able to program the TV's remote to work with the Outlaw but all that is above my pay grade.

A new surround processor will get you eARC (Enhanced ARC) for more bandwidth with better sound and a working remote. The 975 Supports HDMI with ARC. The limitation of ARC is it doesn't support HD Audio nor Atmos formats, but PCM 2ch, DD 5.1, and maybe DTS 5.1.

[dareelbo]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

So it sounds like the Outlaw 975 doesn't support CEC, and that's what I'm missing?
And if I want volume control through my TV, I need to find a processor that doesn't just have ARC, but supports CEC?

[WGH]

The Outlaw appeared around 2012, 9 years is a lifetime in the digital age. Any processor you buy today will have CEC, Dolby Atmos, DTS HD Master Audio, Dolby Surround upmixer, and DTS:Neural X - all through eARC.
The question is does your TV have CEC support?

Using the Outlaw remote is a small inconvenience compared to the amount of money you will have to spend for a new processor....and more speakers because why waste the channels....and more amps to power the speakers. I ended up buying 6 more speakers, a used Adcom 5 channel amp, cutting holes and wire channels, patching and painting but it was all worth it when I settle in for the evening.

Enable CEC in the TV menu
HDMI-CEC Trade Names

    AOC: E-link
    Hitachi: HDMI-CEC
    LG: SimpLink or SIMPLINK (HDMI-CEC)
    Mitsubishi: NetCommand for HDMI
    Onkyo: RIHD (Remote Interactive over HDMI)
    Panasonic: HDAVI Control, EZ-Sync, or VIERA Link
    Philips: EasyLink
    Pioneer: Kuro Link
    Runco International: RuncoLink
    Samsung: Anynet+
    Sharp: Aquos Link
    Sony: BRAVIA Sync
    Toshiba: CE-Link or Regza Link
    Vizio: CEC

[Doublej]

What's the benefit of CEC when using an AVR or pre-pro in a system? The only benefit I can see is if the TV has a built in OTA tuner, then you need to use CEC to send the OTA tuner audio to the AVR.

[WGH]

CEC allows one device to rule them all:

"HDMI CEC was created to enable all devices connected by HDMI to work as one. It means that you don’t need to switch off your soundbar or Blu-ray player separately – if you switch off your TV, they too will power down."¹

"HDMI-CEC allows devices connected to your TV through HDMI ports to communicate back and forth with your TV. The devices can have some control over the TV, and the TV can have some control over the devices. This means you could control your Blu-ray player through your TV remote, for example. Or devices can automatically change your TV’s input when they need to do something."²

I can see how CEC is helpful for a family. I have a bunch of remotes and have to change inputs when changing sources which is OK because I am single. In a household where everyone is using the TV for different reasons CEC would make changing from Playstation to OTA TV to Blu-ray to cable box seamless. I also bet it would take a couple of stiff drinks and a bottle of wine to calm down after trying to get everything to work.

CEC is off by default in many TV's and precessors. dareelbo's TV remote may work if he enabled CEC but because the Outlaw 975 is so old and basic I kind of doubt it. My Anthem AVM 60 has CEC but not eARC. eARC is useful if you want to run all your connections through the TV first before the processor, then you can listen through the TV speakers without turning on the processor and the amps. Turn everything on and get high-res Dolby Atmos and DTS-HD Master Audio through the eARC cable too instead of just the HDMI cables.




CEC - Anthem Manual
"When Consumer Electronics Control is enabled it allows controlling one HDMIconnected component using another’s remote control, as long as CEC is also enabled in the other components.
Note that when component brands are mixed this control system may not be reliable.

"CEC Control must also be On for Audio Return Channel, described in an earlier section, to function.

"With CEC, turning on one component in the system can turn on the rest of the system, same with turning one component off. You may or may not want this which is why separate options are provided for Power Off and Power On control. When either is disabled, the corresponding power commands sent by other HDMI-connected components are ignored. This is also useful if you would like to use Audio Return Channel but not one-touch power."

Enable HDMI Bypass to make everything really confusing:

STANDBY HDMI BYPASS
"This option allows use of an HDMI source without turning on the AVM/MRX. Select HDMI 1-7, Front HDMI, or Last Used. The standby LED on the front panel changes to red. Your TV may need setup to allow the sound to come from its speakers – check it's manual."


¹ https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/hdmi-arc-3485488
² https://www.howtogeek.com/207186/how-to-enable-hdmi-cec-on-your-tv-and-why-you-should/