Very Specific Speaker Request!

Aman · « **on:** 18 Mar 2005, 02:42 am »

Hello guys!

I know that this may seem repetative, but I'm on the lookout for speakers.
My budget is maximum 1000 dollars, but prefer to have it in the 600-800 dollar range.

I don't mind used, but it just has to be in good condition.

As far as sound characteristics go, I need the following:

Lows: Bass extension is somewhat important, bass impact not as much - I want it musical and fitting to the sound, not overly-done
Mids: I like it to be natural and musical. The mids are the most important for me, and mid impact is a nice feature too
Highs: I don't mind if they're rolled off as much, just don't make them shrill or grainy
Soundstage: I just don't want Grado soundstage. I want to be like fifth row center, if possible - not next to the instruments, not in the balcony
Detail/Resolution: Not a top priority, but always nice
Characteristic: Warmth is more important than forwardness

I don't mind if they are monitors or floorstanding, but if they are floorstanding I'll need to incorporate stands into the price. If they are large speakers but not quite large enough to call them floorstanders, I have small stands that can get them off the ground, but not as high as required for a monitor.

They also must not be REALLY power consuming. For now, I am using a 15watt (8 Ohm) Pioneer SX-450 receiver. It's a great receiver but it also has a bit of a power restraint -- at least I plan on upgrading it some time. My Ohm (Model B) speakers run fine out of it, as a guide. I am satisfied at it turned about 1/10 of the way up!

If anybody has a good recommendation, I'd be very appreciative! Thank you in advance!

suits_me · « **Reply #1 on:** 18 Mar 2005, 04:33 am »

Of course your receiver will be the limiting factor until you get around to that upgrade.

You have almost perfectly described the sound of Fried A/6 speakers, a 87-88 db, floor standing, two way line tunnel design which can play moderate levels with 15 wpc - except warmth and relative high end roll off and lack of ultimate definition is not what I associate with fifth row seating. They, and that description, sounds more like farther away in a warm hall. I have a pair, but am not quite ready to sell them. They're pretty ugly, anyway. They appear once in awhile, and would go for something under $450, I think.

I would investigate the Peerless Pipes at http://www.geocities.com/rbrines1/ . Not the single driver stuff there. Only problem is I am unsure of the pricing.

Alternatively, Vandersteen 1C, NHT ST4, Ohm Walsh Micro Talls or one of the cheaper JM Labs Chorus (least low end extension of the mentions) floor models. These are all under 1k new. The last two might not be as warm as the others, and the first three might be a little underpowered with the Pioneer.

Doc Jr 8156 · « **Reply #2 on:** 18 Mar 2005, 04:41 am »

Please take a look at Bob Brines speakers speacially the Ft 1600 MKII. You can read all you want to know about this speaker at Bob's Site, Brines Acoustics. More than 90db efficient. Floorstanding, amazing bass, unique look and intelligently designed. Fits well below your budget. Godspeed.

Aman · « **Reply #3 on:** 18 Mar 2005, 05:01 am »

Thanks guys! I will check those speakers out!

How about Omega Loudspeakers? The factory is about 20 minutes from my house, which is a huge plus. Are they worth a look?

Thanks again!
-Andrew

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #4 on:** 18 Mar 2005, 08:18 am »

Quote from: Aman

Thanks guys! I will check those speakers out!

How about Omega Loudspeakers? The factory is about 20 minutes from my house, which is a huge plus. Are they worth a look?

Thanks again!
-Andrew

20 mintues away....go for it. Your ears will tell you if their right for you...and bring your Pioneer. Have fun !!!

tex-amp · « **Reply #5 on:** 20 Mar 2005, 04:48 pm »

Ascend Acoustics 340 would be another speaker to look into for your requirements.

Lawler Bb · « **Reply #6 on:** 20 Mar 2005, 05:09 pm »

Not to blow my own horn, but look at my ad in the trading post. You have decribed my B&W CDM1SE almost exactly. The midrange is unbelieveable for the price.

You may want to look at this webpage too:

http://www.meta-gizmo.com/Tri/bwcdm1se.html

Hantra · « **Reply #7 on:** 20 Mar 2005, 06:42 pm »

Quote from: Aman

Thanks guys! I will check those speakers out!

How about Omega Loudspeakers? The factory is about 20 minutes from my house, which is a huge plus. Are they worth a look?

Thanks again!
-Andrew

You read my mind. That was my first thought upon reading the initial post. Bass extension is probably not going to be superb, but can be supplemented later.

Dan Driscoll · « **Reply #8 on:** 21 Mar 2005, 03:45 pm »

Vandersteen Model 2C (or Ce/Ci) are a very close match to your description, except they probably have better detail and resolution than you mentioned. They can easily be found used in your price range.

FWIW, suits_me is correct, the receiver is definitely the limiting factor in your set-up equation. The Vandys are 88db efficienct, so your receiver will be able to drive them at low to moderate levels, but that's it. IMO, that's going to be true to a varying extent for any speaker with an efficiency rating under 93 db. If you have a large room the problem will only be worse.

Aman · « **Reply #9 on:** 22 Mar 2005, 05:22 am »

Well the problem is that my speakers are broken -- my receiver isn't.

It's time I replaced the Ohm Model B's..

The receiver itself has a very sweet, natural sound to it that I like a lot. Sure, it's got power restraints but at least it will DRIVE the speakers, so that some day when I get out of MIT I can afford a new amp.

This is why, also, Omega would be awesome because I hear it can be driven to good levels at 5 watts. I also hear sound gets astronomically better with a good amp upgrade.

I have heard nothing but good things about the Vandersteens - the issue is I hear they are really laid back. And that's okay, but I hear they're like "Sennheiser" laid back. I'll definitely get demo's of the vandy's, omegas, and probably the magnepans. Ascends will be hard to demo in my area, but I'll try them too.

Thanks for all the help!

suits_me · « **Reply #10 on:** 22 Mar 2005, 07:11 am »

Why'd you get the idea for Maggies with your 15 watt receiver? Just curious.

The problem with high efficiency, passive speakers is they almost always have peaks. This problem is compounded by others, such as dispersion, FR, or cone breakup issues, if there is a single driver.

Lots of people seem to like high efficiency and/or single driver speakers, but I don't really see how they match the sound you posted you are looking for.

Dan Driscoll · « **Reply #11 on:** 22 Mar 2005, 04:32 pm »

Quote

I have heard nothing but good things about the Vandersteens - the issue is I hear they are really laid back. And that's okay, but I hear they're like "Sennheiser" laid back. I'll definitely get demo's of the vandy's, omegas, and probably the magnepans. Ascends will be hard to demo in my area, but I'll try them too.

I feel that Vandys have a very 'balanced' presentation, where no part of the audio spectrum is emphasized above another. Some people would call this 'flat', but when I think of flat speakers I think near-field studio monitors and that's not at all the type of sound quality I mean.

I love the sound of Maggies, but there's no way (IMO) that your receiver will be able to drive even MMG's properly.

Aman · « **Reply #12 on:** 23 Mar 2005, 12:06 am »

Well I'd rather not break up my budget into speakers AND amp -- one of my speakers ARE damaged, so I do have a problem.

I will demo out the Omega's and see how I like them. If I really like them with the setup I have now (by the way, I have a subwoofer that goes into the speakers too - Polk Monitor 10 .. one of the only Polk subs I ever liked -- does this mean more power by any chance?) I think I'll end up buying them and then getting a better amp when possible.
Otherwise, should I consider getting a new amp before speakers?
Thanks!
-Andrew

Aman · « **Reply #13 on:** 23 Mar 2005, 12:12 am »

Sorry for the double post, but I forgot to add something:

How bad would the speakers SOUND if they were hooked into my Pioneer receiver? Would they sound quite, considerably, worse? Or will they not just be able to be brought to extremely high levels? These speakers peaked my interest a lot since they can be had for just about 600 dollars with stands and cable at audiogon/ebay.

Thanks!

Aman · « **Reply #14 on:** 23 Mar 2005, 12:28 am »

Hmm...
How would the Dared Vp-16 drive Vandersteen speakers? I am being told by Google that this amp is pretty good for the money.. anybody have experience with it?
Thanks!!
-Andrew

alotaklipsch · « **Reply #15 on:** 23 Mar 2005, 04:57 am »

Quote from: Aman

Hmm...
How would the Dared Vp-16 drive Vandersteen speakers? I am being told by Google that this amp is pretty good for the money.. anybody have experience with it?
Thanks!!
-Andrew

Your answer is very simple, Klipsch Cornwall, chorus II, chorus 1, heresey, forte, ect they are the bargain of the speaker world, and are efficient enough for the vintage amp you have. If you are in my area I have some you can demo, and buy. You would be blown away too.

They are FABULOUS

Dan Driscoll · « **Reply #16 on:** 23 Mar 2005, 04:27 pm »

Quote from: Aman

How bad would the speakers SOUND if they were hooked into my Pioneer receiver? Would they sound quite, considerably, worse? Or will they not just be able to be brought to extremely high levels? These speakers peaked my interest a lot since they can be had for just about 600 dollars with stands and cable at audiogon/ebay.

Thanks!

Which speakers, the Omegas? I'm not familiar with them, so I can't comment.

If you are referring to the Maggies, the MMG's have a sensitivity rating of 86db @ 1W. That's bad enough, but to make things even worse, their impedance is only 4 ohms. Your receiver might start clipping as soon as you turn the volume knob off the full counter-clockwise stop.

If you are referring to the Vandy 2C's, their sensitivity is also 86db, but the impedance is 7 ohms. So the receiver should be able to drive them at low levels.

The Dared Vp-16 amp you were asking about is designed specifically to drive high efficiency speakers. I wouldn't use it with any speakers having a sensivitiy rating of less than 96db, or over 100dB, if they are 4 ohms.

With the receiver you have I think you are going to be limited to fairly small bookshelf speakers, which won't have the bass extension you are looking for. High efficiency speakers, like Klipsch, would be your best option for floorstanders.

Keep in mind that a lot of this depends on your room and how loud you like to listen. If you have a small room and listen at low to moderate levels you will have more options than if you have a large room and like to shake the walls.

As always, these are just my opinions. Others may disagree and of course, YMMV.

Aman · « **Reply #17 on:** 24 Mar 2005, 12:29 am »

Well I guess I might as well be on the lookout for an amp upgrade before I check out the speakers ... the speakers are listenable until only a certain degree (on the higher frequencies).

In that case, does anybody have experience with the BlueNote Steroid 1 amp? I am going to be able to receive one for $550 - is this a good deal, and is the sound any good?

Thanks!!
-Andrew

thayerg · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 Mar 2005, 01:00 am »

You seem to be very dollar conscious. Nothing the matter with that, but it suggests you would be happier with used equipment.

I don't think a 25 watt integrated from some company nobody's ever heard of is worth 550 bucks. For that kind of money you can get either more power from Rotel among many others or the true toob sound from ASL or Jolida

Educate yourself and when the right piece comes along you'll recognize it. The world is awash in consumer electronics.

Aman · « **Reply #19 on:** 24 Mar 2005, 01:35 am »

I'm only dollar concious because I have to put myself through a very expensive MIT education. I'm lucky enough I can support myself and pay the rent ...

Anyway..

I take back what I said -- the speakers are plain unlistenable. I think I can tollerate the sound of half-assed audio if the speakers themselves are very good -- it means when I get an amp it will be good.

And I HIGHLY doubt that bluenote is a company nobody has heard from. They are true Italian amps that are praised by people like Todd The Vinyl Junkie and used as demos for all the highest end of gear -- I am told that it's great, but I was wondering if anybody from here would know about it or have experience with it.