high efficient speakers

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firberger

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high efficient speakers
« on: 3 Apr 2021, 09:34 pm »
I am looking for users of Daedulas Muse Studio, Coincident Super eclipse and ZU Audio speakers.  I would like to hear your views on them to include their strengths and weaknesses and what type of music where the speakers shine.

FullRangeMan

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Re: high efficient speakers
« Reply #1 on: 3 Apr 2021, 10:10 pm »
Welcome

Phil A

Re: high efficient speakers
« Reply #2 on: 3 Apr 2021, 11:47 pm »
Welcome to AC!

Anji12305

The allure of efficiency
« Reply #3 on: 4 Apr 2021, 12:37 pm »
The appeal of the products you have listed is a professional fit and finish to the cabinets.

Each additional driver complicates some part of playback.

What I liked most about my (long departed) high efficiency speakers was the way vocals, acoustic bass and woodwinds approximated my memory of live players.

What I didn't care for was playback at the extremes.

In my opinion the best sounding "wide range" drivers have no crossover components.
That means you'll need a stable amplifier that is also quiet. 

There is a very good opportunity in the classified section.  While not as flashy as the examples mentioned, it's inexpensive and well received.

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=173376.0

JLM

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Re: high efficient speakers
« Reply #4 on: 4 Apr 2021, 01:33 pm »
20 years ago was looking for high efficiency loudspeakers to go with SET amp but couldn't find any I would have been happy with.  Single drivers lacked bass, often had nasal midrange, or were compromised with whizzer cones or helper tweeters (like Zu).  Haven't heard Daedalus or Coincident but impressions say their crossovers destroy the magic of high efficiency and am not a fan of MTM design.  The best high efficiency I've heard are Classic Audio Loudspeakers, but only well suited for very large rooms (say 20,000 cubic foot or bigger), big, and expensive (design follows Altec A7 and the like).

Finally settled on Fostex F200a driver in a commissioned transmission line cabinet.  The F200a ($575 when last available) was rated 30-20,000 Hz, 8 ohms, 90 dB/w/m.  Have found that high efficiency typical brings with it colorations and reveal system noises.  IMO 93 dB/w/m is an ideal to still provide dynamics yet tame colorations and noise, but that takes most SET's out of consideration.  Being a "speaker guy" am willing to make that compromise. 

FullRangeMan

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Re: high efficient speakers
« Reply #5 on: 4 Apr 2021, 02:56 pm »
Finally settled on Fostex F200a driver in a commissioned transmission line cabinet.  The F200a ($575 when last available) was rated 30-20,000 Hz, 8 ohms, 90 dB/w/m.  Have found that high efficiency typical brings with it colorations and reveal system noises.  IMO 93 dB/w/m is an ideal to still provide dynamics yet tame colorations and noise, but that takes most SET's out of consideration.  Being a "speaker guy" am willing to make that compromise.
Your F200A used a small cabinet to fit TS parameters, with a bigger box it could delivery more bass. Colorations and noise depend on how the inside box are stuffed.  A SET amp with the 6C33 may delivery 15W or 25/30W with the GM70 as Lampizator or more with the Pentode GK71 from Wavebourn, these tube are readily available at $20/30 at GSTubes.com not $500 or more from the 845/211 replicas not to mention US NOS.

JLM

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Re: high efficient speakers
« Reply #6 on: 4 Apr 2021, 03:05 pm »
The specifications I listed were for the raw driver.  The cabinet is 45" x 11 5/8" x 13 5/8" (4.1 cubic feet) and is unstuffed transmission line designed using Martin King's MathCad application as designed/built by Bob Brines. 

FullRangeMan

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Re: high efficient speakers
« Reply #7 on: 4 Apr 2021, 04:10 pm »
The specifications I listed were for the raw driver.  The cabinet is 45" x 11 5/8" x 13 5/8" (4.1 cubic feet) and is unstuffed transmission line designed using Martin King's MathCad application as designed/built by Bob Brines.
Seems 115L, the Litrage is a range:
Minimum
mid (optimal)
Maximum
Do you know what is the F200-A range ?

Unstuffed or dry boxes are very used in pro audio to less cost and higher SPL, but the sound are awful.

ArthurDent

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Re: high efficient speakers
« Reply #8 on: 4 Apr 2021, 11:55 pm »
Greetings & Welcome to AC firberger   :thumb: 

firberger

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Re: high efficient speakers
« Reply #9 on: 17 Apr 2021, 12:56 am »
Thank you all for the comments . I took the plunge and acquired the Daedalus. The Coincident side firing woofers were not going to work for me. In a comparison to the Response three.five's I have they are more open and detailed . They also lack the smoothness of the ProAc. However I am quite pleased with the sound and the differences. For now they will be a keeper . Looking at some Wellborne DSD300's to see how they sound. I have never experimented with SET amps before.  . Meanwhile I am using either Modwright amplification or an ultravalve. 


SET Man

Re: high efficient speakers
« Reply #10 on: 17 Apr 2021, 04:39 am »
Thank you all for the comments . I took the plunge and acquired the Daedalus. The Coincident side firing woofers were not going to work for me. In a comparison to the Response three.five's I have they are more open and detailed . They also lack the smoothness of the ProAc. However I am quite pleased with the sound and the differences. For now they will be a keeper . Looking at some Wellborne DSD300's to see how they sound. I have never experimented with SET amps before.  . Meanwhile I am using either Modwright amplification or an ultravalve.

Hey!

    I have been using my Welborne Labs Apollo since 1999. I bought them in kit form. I was curious about Single Driver speaker since the first time I've heard a proper Single Driver speaker at an audio show here in NYC. So, in 2002 I built a pair of TQWT type with Fostex 6" drivers as an experiment. Well, I'm still using the crappy looking "experiment" speaker today.
   Anyway, I've never heard the Welborne Labs DRD amps and they are a different design than my Apollo or his earlier amps. So, I don't know how they sound. But with SET amp, beside higher efficiency, I'd look for speaker with relatively flat impedance with simple crossover. If you have small to medium room, don't listen too loud then, Single Driver or 2-way speaker would be good for them.
   A SET amp done right paring with a right pair of speaker can be quite amazing, captivating and emotionally correct. Good luck and keep us posted.

Buddy

Early B.

Re: high efficient speakers
« Reply #11 on: 17 Apr 2021, 12:42 pm »
If you're seeking highly efficient speakers, make sure they've been measured and verified by an independent third party. Many manufacturers inflate their efficiency specs for marketing purposes. And since there's no industry standard measure for efficiency, this number can often be confusing or misleading.

FullRangeMan

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Re: high efficient speakers
« Reply #12 on: 17 Apr 2021, 03:15 pm »
Hi Fiberger,
I had not aware this was not your first post in the Starting Block Circle, it is really for people to introduce themselves.
This question/thread is best posted in the Enclosure Circle, so I wll move it there for you now.
« Last Edit: 17 Apr 2021, 04:16 pm by FullRangeMan »

firberger

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Re: high efficient speakers
« Reply #13 on: 20 Apr 2021, 08:51 pm »
Thank You full-range-man .
Well the speakers are behaving quite nicely. Stringed instruments are out of this world.
It looks I will pick up non-working Wellborne 300dsd AMPS this weekend to fix and try to make operable.
they were a kit and had not been assembled properly . So will require a fair amount of trouble shooting.
What else is there to do ....?
I suppose a separate thread for the SET amps are in order.

SET Man

Re: high efficient speakers
« Reply #14 on: 21 Apr 2021, 03:56 am »
Thank You full-range-man .
Well the speakers are behaving quite nicely. Stringed instruments are out of this world.
It looks I will pick up non-working Wellborne 300dsd AMPS this weekend to fix and try to make operable.
they were a kit and had not been assembled properly . So will require a fair amount of trouble shooting.
What else is there to do ....?
I suppose a separate thread for the SET amps are in order.

Hey!

    I see a pair of non-working Welborne Labs DRD? As long as those power and output transformers are still good and you can get them on the cheap, they are worth rebuilding.

    Like my Welborne Labs Apollo, I believe the transformers in the DRD are also made by Electra-Print. Those are great transformers, especially the output transformers. The cost of transformers have gone up quite a bit the past 20 years. And likely that if you want to have one made today those output transformers will likely cost you $200-300 each.

   So, it is worth checking them out for sure.

Buddy

   

sebrof

Re: high efficient speakers
« Reply #15 on: 21 Apr 2021, 11:23 am »
Hey!

    I see a pair of non-working Welborne Labs DRD? As long as those power and output transformers are still good and you can get them on the cheap, they are worth rebuilding.

    Like my Welborne Labs Apollo, I believe the transformers in the DRD are also made by Electra-Print. Those are great transformers, especially the output transformers. The cost of transformers have gone up quite a bit the past 20 years. And likely that if you want to have one made today those output transformers will likely cost you $200-300 each.

   So, it is worth checking them out for sure.

Buddy

 
I’m not familiar with the DRD or Apollo but I have a pair of Electraprint OPTs from Welborne Moondogs in my single ended 2A3 amp and they made a big improvement over the James transformers I had in the amp previously. So yeah, if the DRD transformers are good (if they are Electraprint they probably are good) then you have a good amp to start with.