[bside123]

Greetings Gassers,

Well, it looks like my Janis Subwoofer and/or my Janis Interphase 1-A Crossover Amp has shot craps and is no longer worker. I got years of service with this legendary set-up, but I'm thinking that it's time to move on, rather than to trouble shoot and rebuild either the sub or the amp. Too bad, as these boutique house, low production subs were gorgeous. For those of you that have ever seen one, they are literally cabinet mastered, furniture quality. At one time, Janis subs were considered extraordinary. That being said, the technology and equipment are literally decades old. I'm not certain that the founder of the company is even still alive. I'm thinking that there must be newer and more effective selections these days. Besides, I believe that the Janis set-up was actually starting to sound tired, and over time, less responsive and less musical.

Long story short... I haven't been in the shopping mode for audio equipment in many years. For those of you that are active in the buying, selling, gear acquisition and horse trading part of the audio universe, perhaps you could either make some recommendations or at least steer me in the right direction. I'm happy to do the research, homework and legwork, but I could use some help. I don't even know in what price range I should be looking. What's the playing field?

I have good equipment, and I'd be pairing a subwoofer to VSA VR-35 Export Speakers. My amplifiers are McCormack/SMc Audio Custom Mono Blocs. Any thoughts? Where should I start looking? Thanks!

[WGH]

The playing field boils down to three excellent but sonically different ideas. What is your room size and seating/family/decorating situation?

1. Open Baffle - GR Research subs are an example, recommended placement is 3'-4' away from front wall.

2. Swarm - 4 small subs places around the room http://www.audiokinesis.com/

3. Traditional - a sealed box is most musical, Rhythmik and REL are two of the best, after that it's a crap shoot.

REL's are designed as a sub-bass speaker and work optimally with full range speakers. There are plenty of reviews and explanations, here is one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSHkpy2280Q

[ptman]

I have a pair of REL S/3's paired with my Bricasti amp and DAC, and YG Acoustics Carmel speakers. The integration is great and very musical. I purchased them at Music for Pleasure.

[BPT]

Budget might be a factor. Should be powered with EQ ability or even auto EQ. I like JL, Rythmik or SVS. Swarm is nice if you have the room.
CJH

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Rhythmik, HSU, SVS, JL Fathom

[Digi-G]

Another vote for SVS.  I have one and love it.

If I were in the market for a new one I would also consider something from GR Research.  Most of the ones I've read about on this forum have been DIY, but I have the impression there is a LOT of bang for the buck.

[jtcf]

I like SVS also. Two or more are much easier to blend in seamlessly.

[WGH]

Room size, listening preferences and budget will determine which subwoofer will work best.

A_shah also wondered what sub would work in his room that could possibly replace his HSU VTF 15 MK 2. He initially tried the REL T9/i but a pair was too small for his room, he now has a pair of REL S/812's.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=168144.msg1783227#msg1783227

Asghar made a follow up posts after receiving the S/812's:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=170815.msg1808224#msg1808224


I suggest you call Rachel Paik at the REL factory in Berkeley, CA. (510) 990-6005
REL has great customer support and she has helped both me and A_shah with our questions.


A_shah has a Hsu 15 " Subwoofer VTF 15- MK 2 for sale for $600
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=168634.msg1787559#msg1787559

[Rusty Tac]

I would also recommend looking the the GR Research subs.  There is a open baffle dual servo sub that is very highly spoke of.  It is DIY and as mentioned a lot of bang for the buck.  If you look on the forum there may be someone in your area that can build them for you, a woodworker looking for a few bucks on a weekend.
 

[timind]

Love my SVS SB3000. The remote app makes it so easy to setup. Sounds fantastic as well.

Oh wait, I'm not a Gasser.

[artur9]

Legacy Audio makes furniture grade subwoofers.  I've lusted after their Metros and Xtremes.

You could also peruse data-bass.com and/or read some of Jim Wilson's subwoofer reviews to get a sense of what's out there.

[bside123]

Thanks to everyone for chiming in so far. Looks like I've got lots of homework to do.

Many of the offerings, whether complete packages or DIY, are now available direct from the manufacturer. It's hard to know how something will sound in my space without trial... and I understand that many manufacturers have a trial period. Between current sales trends and the Corona pandemic, it's also difficult if not impossible to audition or hear something in a showroom, studio or a person's home before buying.

I love the suggestions, as they help the hunt. BTW, My VSA 35s are rated for 30Hz depending on room placement. You can find my system on AudioCircle: https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=systems;area=browse;system=1410

[JLM]

Suggest reading Floyd Toole's "Sound Reproduction" 3rd edition is the consummate audiophile guide to how loudspeaker and subwoofers behave in-room.  Toole worked for decades at the National (Canadian) Research Council then retired from Harmon International (makers of JBL, Revel, Crown, Mark Levinson, etc.) so is perhaps the world's most respected acoustician.  He invented Spinorama anechoic chamber measurement, the recognized standard method for loudspeaker testing.  He also led decades of trained panels of listeners in comparative double blind testing that validated his testing.  His preferred bass reinforcement scheme is the use of multiple subs to reduce in-room peaks/dips.

Most audiophiles make the mistake of using full range loudspeakers or lining up one or two subs side-by-side with their main loudspeakers.  If you draw 4 inches of water in a bathtub and move your hand in the water lengthwise in the tub waves will be created.  The waves travel, like a bass wave, until they hit the end of the tub where they bounce back and collide with the next wave where they will either double up (peak), cancel (dip), or otherwise interfere with each other.  Lining up all the subwoofers/loudspeakers side-by-side just makes this phoneme worse.  The best solution is to use multiple subwoofers carefully located around the room.

Toole found that corner placement or mid-way along each wall produces the best results.  Duke LeJeune's swarm is such a system (audiokinesis.com).   It is designed to complement room gain and has been well accepted.  Realize that sound travels in waves up to the transition (also known as the Schroeder) frequency, roughly 300 Hz (room dependent) and as rays above that. 

After using multiple subwoofers the next best step is the use of bass absorbing materials, one of the most effective being Owens Corning 703 high density fiberglass that can be found in GIK (see their circle here at Audio Circle).  Their 244 "Range Limiter" panels are highly effective.  The last step is the use of room equalization, such as REW (Room Equalization Wizard - free, very flexible, but harder to use) or Dirac.  Note that this last step should only be used as "icing on the cake" and not substitute for physical solutions (subwoofers, bass absorption).

[Mike B.]

I use the JL Audio Fathoms. This line along with other manufactures come with DSP built in. They include a calibrated microphone to help setup. It works to tame how the bass interacts with the room.

[EvanF]

Suggest reading Floyd Toole's "Sound Reproduction" 3rd edition is the consummate audiophile guide to how loudspeaker and subwoofers behave in-room.  Toole worked for decades at the National (Canadian) Research Council then retired from Harmon International (makers of JBL, Revel, Crown, Mark Levinson, etc.) so is perhaps the world's most respected acoustician.  He invented Spinorama anechoic chamber measurement, the recognized standard method for loudspeaker testing.  He also led decades of trained panels of listeners in comparative double blind testing that validated his testing.  His preferred bass reinforcement scheme is the use of multiple subs to reduce in-room peaks/dips.

Most audiophiles make the mistake of using full range loudspeakers or lining up one or two subs side-by-side with their main loudspeakers.  If you draw 4 inches of water in a bathtub and move your hand in the water lengthwise in the tub waves will be created.  The waves travel, like a bass wave, until they hit the end of the tub where they bounce back and collide with the next wave where they will either double up (peak), cancel (dip), or otherwise interfere with each other.  Lining up all the subwoofers/loudspeakers side-by-side just makes this phoneme worse.  The best solution is to use multiple subwoofers carefully located around the room.

Toole found that corner placement or mid-way along each wall produces the best results.  Duke LeJeune's swarm is such a system (audiokinesis.com).   It is designed to complement room gain and has been well accepted.  Realize that sound travels in waves up to the transition (also known as the Schroeder) frequency, roughly 300 Hz (room dependent) and as rays above that. 

After using multiple subwoofers the next best step is the use of bass absorbing materials, one of the most effective being Owens Corning 703 high density fiberglass that can be found in GIK (see their circle here at Audio Circle).  Their 244 "Range Limiter" panels are highly effective.  The last step is the use of room equalization, such as REW (Room Equalization Wizard - free, very flexible, but harder to use) or Dirac.  Note that this last step should only be used as "icing on the cake" and not substitute for physical solutions (subwoofers, bass absorption).

thanks for the advice! I run two Snell Sub 550s in my bedroom but now I may start to rearrange things, since I do have them side by side with my speakers...

[thunderbrick]

Love my SVS SB3000. The remote app makes it so easy to setup. Sounds fantastic as well.

Oh wait, I'm not a Gasser.

Then move...